In this episode of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast, hosts John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) dive into the often contentious topic of music practice. They challenge the traditional time-based practice recommendations and introduce a more balanced approach that defines two categories — skill development and experiential practice.
John and Mandy explore how different types of practice can foster creativity, maintain student interest, and prevent burnout. They discuss the importance of incorporating both skill-building exercises and activities that bring inspiration to the student. From playing old favorites to exploring new genres, this episode is filled with practical advice for music educators and parents alike.
In this episode:
- Redefining practice for students, parents, and instructors
- Skill-Development practice
- Experience practice
- What “counts” as practice
- Balancing the different categories to maximize student engagement
Plus, you can download a special guide and worksheet to help redefine practice in your own music studio. Visit https://rockschoolproprietor.com/resources/ to access the guide for free!
Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:02):
I am just going to say it. I think it’s the lazy answer. It’s the easy answer. Just be like, oh, 20 minutes. It gets the instructor off the hook because they’ve given an answer that the parents will accept. It gets the parents off the hook because now they’re just like, okay, well, I’ll set a timer for 20 minutes. But it places all of the burden on the student, 100% of the burden on the student.
Mandy York (00:26):
The parents are going to get on the kids to reach that number of minutes per day. The kids are going to push back, they’re going to get frustrated. And what’s the quality of that? Right?
John Kozicki (00:36):
The playing is what brings joy and it counts. It counts as practice. Welcome to the Rock School Proprietor podcast. I am John Kozicki, and joining me is my co-host. Once again, Mandy York. Hi Mandy.
Mandy York (00:54):
Hey, John.
John Kozicki (00:55):
How are you?
Mandy York (00:57):
I’m doing really good today. How about you?
John Kozicki (00:59):
Well, I’m doing good. We’re recording in the evening rather than the morning, so we’ll see how it goes. I don’t
Mandy York (01:06):
Know,
John Kozicki (01:07):
But this is what we’re going to talk about is practice when it comes to music. And I’m pretty passionate about this and I’ve got strong opinions, and I oftentimes hope that because you and I have different backgrounds, you’ll push back. But I think we’re going to agree 100% on how we’re talking about practice with this one.
Mandy York (01:31):
Yes. I think we’ve got some good stuff to talk about here. I like it.
John Kozicki (01:35):
Yeah. So I guess I’ll start this by saying, when you are asked in your studio, now granted you probably don’t get asked as much in your studio because you are a music together center and you’re dealing with toddlers. I get this question. I hear parents ask my instructors this question all the time, how much time should my child spend practicing their instrument? But when you get asked that question, what do you say?
Mandy York (02:10):
Well, like you said, totally different in my studio. I think we’ll talk about that separately, what it looks like in music together with the babies and toddlers. But as a parent, as a music student myself, when I was younger, yes, all the time, practice, practice, practice. And I admit as a parent of a piano student, that was a big thing for me. How much should we be practicing every day? We have to keep our fingers moving, right? Yes. And quantifying it.
John Kozicki (02:44):
Yes.
Mandy York (02:45):
Yeah.
John Kozicki (02:46):
So I was asked, told as a kid, 30 minutes every day, I need to practice 30 minutes every day. When I started teaching guitar, I would get asked that question, and I would say, to see progress, you need to pick up the guitar and practice like 20 to 30 minutes per day. As a studio owner in my rock school, I hear all the time parents asking my instructors, how much should they practice? And oftentimes the instructors say, well, you only get better if you practice 20 to 30 minutes each day. I think it’s wrong. I do.
Mandy York (03:29):
And what you’re saying, it’s the same answer for every teacher, every student, right?
John Kozicki (03:35):
It seems to be
Mandy York (03:37):
Right. Be across the board. Yeah,
John Kozicki (03:41):
Think. Okay. So it’s not that I think the answer’s wrong. I think the question is wrong, and I think that focusing on time is wrong When that question is answered, I think that makes it very transactional. And then it’s almost like, oh, well, okay, 20 minutes and then you’ll get good. It’s not realistic now, but I’ll say that it’s necessary. It is necessary to see improvement in your skills, and we will get into this, but I think there, well, okay, I’ve got this theory, and I’ve used this in recent years. This is not what I did when I was a younger instructor, but this is what I do when I’m asked this question. Now as a studio owner, and I try and teach my instructors to do this, I have two different categories for practice, and we’ll get into that, but kind of what people think about traditional practice is what I call skill development practice. And that is when you need to log that time to see improvement in those skills, that’s a real thing. But I think there’s a whole separate category that’s worth exploring, and I call it experience practice. So I think as a community, as music instructors, as you don’t even have your kids practice. They’re kids. They’re babies, right? Yes.
(05:17):
So you are literally telling them to practice this second category, experience practice.
Mandy York (05:25):
Yeah, I’d say that’s where I fall. Yep. That’s where I fall into as
John Kozicki (05:29):
A music teacher. So you’re like, oh, 20 minutes. Make them sit down. And what are the sticks? What? The sticks
Mandy York (05:36):
That you, the rhythm sticks. Oh yeah, the rhythm sticks. The sticks
John Kozicki (05:40):
Written. Pick up the rhythm sticks and play for 20 minutes. Okay, so lemme write this down a little bit more. First category skill development practice. What this is, is it doesn’t need much explanation because most people I think already understand what this is. This is anything that is challenging for the student. Anything that’s like a new or specific technique that’s going to require some focus, maybe memorizing notes and scales. All of these things are going to require repetition. All these things are going to require sitting there and just doing it, right?
Mandy York (06:18):
Yep. You and I agree on this. This is essential to developing your skills, to reaching your goals. And yeah, I would consider this notes rhythm as a singer. My language interpretation, style, memorization, concentrating on those difficult passages, like drilling a piece of music. That’s really tough.
John Kozicki (06:41):
This is the eat your vegetables category of practice.
Mandy York (06:44):
Sure,
John Kozicki (06:45):
You got to eat your vegetables. It’s important. But my argument is that if that is all that is going on, then it’s going to lead to burnout. I don’t think it’s sustainable. I think if all practice is just this skill development practice, then it puts this weird pressure on the student. The parents think that, well, that’s all it takes. How much time did you practice? Oh, you got five more minutes, go back and eat some more vegetables.
Mandy York (07:17):
And I think that’s key too with this kind of practice is the kind of strain between parent and student is, like you said, it’s transactional. So the parents are going to get on the kids to reach that number of minutes per day, and the kids are going to push back, they’re going to get frustrated. And what’s the quality of that? Right. Okay. My mom said, I have to sit here for 15 minutes, so I’m just going to, right. So what good is
John Kozicki (07:45):
It? Yeah. When I was a kid taking piano lessons, I faked it.
Mandy York (07:50):
That’s what I’m talking about. Yeah.
John Kozicki (07:51):
There was a kitchen timer and the kitchen timer was set for 20 minutes, and I just sit at the piano and practice for 20 minutes, and I hated it. So I would just make up songs. And because in my mind I thought like, well, they don’t know. My parents don’t know what I’m supposed to be practicing. I’ll just play whatever. And I hated it. And that’s what led me to want to quit piano lessons. So yeah, I think we’ve kind of covered, and I know I’ve shared with you that I read books about learning and psychology and stuff like that. Sometimes business books, big fan of Adam Grant. And recently I was reading his book, I think it’s his most recent book called Hidden Potential. And he has an entire chapter in hidden potential about how musicians learn and the importance of joy in the process rather than feeling like they have to achieve an outcome. So I think when it’s transactional and you have to log a certain number of minutes to be successful, well that’s the pressure to achieve an outcome. There is not much joy in that. So what Grant says is there has to be that joy to keep you fired up, to keep you interested. And I think that’s where this whole second category comes into play, this experience practice. And Grant says also that although it takes deliberate practice to achieve greater things, we shouldn’t drill so hard that we drive the joy out of the activity and turn it into an obsessive slog. Those are the words he uses. Obsessive slog.
Mandy York (09:42):
Yes. And I think that’s right on. When you were talking about traditional practice earlier, and you called it leading to burnout, what I thought right away was that it drains the joy out of the music making. And again, we do agree that traditional practice is necessary, and I think that it can lead to joy accomplishing those feats, accomplishing a new skill. Totally. But there has to be a balance there, because if there isn’t, then it becomes burdensome. And say that last piece again from an
John Kozicki (10:24):
Obsessive slog.
Mandy York (10:25):
Yes. Yeah, yeah,
John Kozicki (10:27):
Exactly. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. We have a number of students here at Michigan Rock School who are really driven by a challenge. And so those are the students that they practice with a metronome. They want to improve their speed, they want to get more technically proficient. That’s this category. And they’re driven by those small achievements. I was at 150 beats per minute last week, now I’m at 155 beats per minute. That’s success. So they can get fired up about that, and that’s great. I don’t think it’s everything though. And I think there’s way more that we can explore about category number two, which is experience practice. So what I define as experience practice is anything that your student has learned in past lessons or on their own that they enjoy playing. So think about, I’ll draw a comparison here. Do you golf, Mandy?
Mandy York (11:34):
I’ve been golfing. Me
John Kozicki (11:35):
Too. I’ve
Mandy York (11:36):
Been, I’ve been,
John Kozicki (11:38):
Okay. So I know from my friends who golf, sometimes they go to a driving range. That would be the equivalent of experience practice working on their swing. They’re working on the repetitive actions, but sometimes they just go out and play around of golf. Oh, sorry, I called that experience practice. That’s skill development practice. The driving range. Sometimes they just go out and play around of golf and they enjoy it, and there’s still time that they can spend trying to improve, but that’s practice that counts. They’re doing the activity. That’s experience practice. And I also think that this is where as music instructors, this is where we can make a real difference. Because if we tell a kid, oh, you have to practice this piece of music that I just gave you 20 minutes this week every day. Well, okay, that can be a lot of pressure on the kid. But if we tell them, okay, yes, you have to practice this. You got to play this piece, this exercise that we’ve been working on, play it three times every time you sit down to practice. But then also, let’s talk about these other things that count as practice.
(12:59):
What’s a song that you learned six months ago that you really enjoy? Okay, play that this week. They’re going to find that they play it better six months later because they’ve grown as students. And so referencing back to Adam Grant is another quote. It’s find joy in the process rather than feeling pressure to achieve an outcome. So a great way to learn more about experience practice is you can ask yourself or ask students or ask parents or your instructors what counts as practice? So what are some things that you think would count as practice? And this is right up your alley because with music together, again, you’re not telling the kids play your rhythm sticks for 10 minutes.
Mandy York (13:55):
Right, right, exactly. No, I like your example of playing an older piece of music, something you’ve learned in the past. I love when I hear that from my daughter in the other room, I’m like, oh, oh, I haven’t heard that in a long time. She pulled that out just to play with it for the joy of it. At the end of my semesters, I like to do a favorite song class. So I’ll ask all the babies and moms the toddlers, today’s class, anything you want, we’re going to do your favorite songs. And most of the time I’ll get requests from the current collection of songs that we’re learning. But my favorite is when a three or 4-year-old asks for a song that we learned two or three semesters ago. So cool. Right? Fun. They’re building that repertoire. They’re creating favorites and memories. In my studio, the questions that I get from my parents are, or the comments I suppose, is that my child, I don’t think my child’s really enjoying the class, or my child just won’t participate. Or maybe my child’s too young. We should wait a little bit. I always hear from these same parents, they love music. They love making music at home. They sing, play and dance all the time. So what I have to do is kind of educate them about what participation is. I think that that’s kind of the vocabulary that I use in my studio for what you’re talking about here, is that at this age, we are participating in music that we’re experiencing. Right?
John Kozicki (15:30):
That’s interesting.
Mandy York (15:30):
This is your second category,
John Kozicki (15:33):
Because what you’re describing is they are practicing at home, but then they’re in class, they’re freezing up, or the parents feel like, oh, this is not what they do at home. So it’s interesting that the age of the student, in your case we’re talking about maybe eight months, maybe 18 months, maybe two years old,
Mandy York (15:58):
Four years.
John Kozicki (16:00):
The parents’ expectation there is what they’re seeing at home. Well, that looks different than what they’re doing here in class, but as kids get older, it’s almost the opposite. Well, what are they doing in there? What are they doing in that lesson? I don’t hear ’em practicing at home. I don’t know what’s going on. Yeah,
Mandy York (16:20):
That is so funny. You’re right. Yeah. And that’s something I have to educate the parents on a lot is that for this age group that I’m working with, the home is their safe space. So that’s where all of these musical behaviors are going to come out. And participation in my room looks a lot different because they’re kind of on record mode when they’re in my space. And the caregivers are responsible for all the music making. So we’re singing, dancing, playing instruments, participation for a two-year-old can be observing. That can be practice quote, because they’re taking it all in that I am just as happy to see that as I am if they’re picking up their egg shakers and tapping ’em together. So observing, we have all different kinds of learners. Every kid has their own different personality and learning approach, kinesthetic learners. So if they’re walking through the room, they’re walking through the room that’s participating, maybe they’re listening while they move. And it’s so funny for some of those movers, every once in a while as they pass by me, they might sing the end of a phrase and I’ll catch that,
John Kozicki (17:32):
Oh yeah,
Mandy York (17:33):
They’re participating. They’re just walking through the room while they do it. Sometimes the kids are rolling the sticks while everybody else is tapping the sticks. That’s okay. They’re mastering that skill. That’s what they want to do at that moment, and it feels good, and they’re mastering that. So that’s something I say, we’re learning through play and so are your students. We’re learning through play. And play is a freely chosen activity, right? This isn’t like you need to tap those sticks right now. No. They want to roll those sticks, and that’s how they’re going to play. Nope. They want to walk through the room and that’s how they’re going to play. All good.
John Kozicki (18:16):
I find it interesting. And have you ever watched Victor Wootens Ted Talk music as a language?
Mandy York (18:25):
Oh no.
John Kozicki (18:25):
Oh, okay. I’m going to send you a link. Okay. Because in Victor Wootens Ted Talk, he talks about how when babies are learning how to talk, when they’re learning how to communicate, they’ll say things wrong and parents don’t correct them. They think it’s cute. And then after that, the parents start saying it wrong. So they’re reinforcing that. So at some point though, something switches and I think, and yes, I think it has to switch at some point, you get older, you develop differently. Again, that skill building practice is important, but not losing the play-based practice, not losing the experience, practice and the spirit of what that is, is super important for everyone. Again, whether it’s a baby, whether it’s a 12-year-old or even it’s the 45-year-old guy on the golf course, that the playing is what brings joy and it counts. It counts as practice. So, sorry, I totally interrupted you. Keep going because I love what you’re saying.
Mandy York (19:51):
Yeah. So that’s what it looks like in my studio, right? Practice is participation, is just practicing being a musical, being having a dance party at home. And the way our classes are set up is, like I said, a lot of times the kids are just on record mode, and I strongly encourage all my families to take this home with you. We sang this song, I’ll use our last, right? We sang about cows next week or at home. Make up your own words to the song and play with it. Just be playful. I love it. Have your own dance party. I think I’ve thought about what this looks like for your students, and like you said, you’ve given examples and there’s a lot of different ways that kids can practice through experiencing music, and that’s listening to new genres. Maybe the take home from the instructor is, this is the piece that we’re working on, but see if you can come back and tell me about a new artist. You learned about
John Kozicki (21:03):
That kind of thing. And I do have, I’ve got a short list. Well, I’ve got a list of eight things that I have used that I think should count as practice and should be part of the conversation. So when parents ask, how much time should I be practicing? Instead of just giving them the oh, 30 minutes, you engage in this conversation about like, well, let’s talk about what practice means, right? Because yeah, I think there’s a time and a place for logging some hours and logging some minutes for your practice, but let’s talk about all these other things that count as practice. Because when you start playing music, you start listening to music differently. You start interacting with music differently. And so there’s all these different muscles that you can flex muscles in quotes, because I think it’s mental muscles, not
(21:58):
Physical muscles and building muscle memory. So here’s my list. And some of these are super obvious, some of ’em maybe not, but I think they count, number one, playing songs or even parts of music that they already know or have mastered. Again, keeps those skills sharp. It’s repetition just in a different way. Number two, trying to play or learn something new that wasn’t introduced or covered in a lesson. This is way easier these days with YouTube instructional videos on almost everything. So we have students all the time who are learning songs on their own, and I love it. Number three, simply listening to music. Again, you listen to music differently when you understand it, when you start playing it. Number four, going to a concert or watching concert performance videos or concert videos. Again, having that visual, you can then sort of think about how you as a student could mirror those actions, mirror the performance. Just envision yourself doing that. I
Mandy York (23:13):
Think that’s so huge. Live music, I mean, how inspirational,
John Kozicki (23:19):
That’s the thing, right?
Mandy York (23:21):
Yeah.
John Kozicki (23:22):
The thing is live music five, talking about music with family members. You probably do that a lot with you and your husband, both being music educators
Mandy York (23:35):
With the kids.
John Kozicki (23:36):
Yeah. Number six, reading or learning about their instrument or their favorite musician or, I dunno, I’m a guitar player, so I talk about guitar pedals with the students or anything related to music. I think that counts number seven. And you kind of mentioned this with your students creating or making up their own songs, their own music, their own lyrics, their own jingles. It doesn’t have to be good. It doesn’t have to be two years beyond where they are. They can just experiment.
Mandy York (24:14):
I always tell ’em, there’s no wrong answer. There’s no wrong answer to that.
John Kozicki (24:18):
No, there’s plenty of time later to learn the rules. And number eight, play or try to play an instrument that the student isn’t primarily learning. That’s a fun one. It’s always hilarious when the kids are like, can I play drums on this song in our band program? Can I play drums? Most of the time it’s an O because at that point there are some expectations, but to see them get fired up and to understand how they can apply what they already know from their primary instrument to a different instrument, it opens up so many doors. I think.
Mandy York (24:58):
Yes, I love this list. I love everything on this list because these things challenge the students. They foster creativity in the students. They spark joy in the students. All of these things that you’ve listed, they expand. To me. Some of this is world expanding too, learning, like you said, learning, reading about your instrument or your favorite musician, or learning new artists, new genres. We’re expanding their worlds. They’re learning, they’re being creative, they’re being challenged. I mean, how can this not be as important as the skill development?
John Kozicki (25:40):
Right? Right. It is. Yeah. It’s inspiring. It’s sparking that interest, that bigger interest in music. And so as a side note related to switching instruments, I just remembered this. So I’d been playing guitar for a while. I had been teaching guitar for a few years at this point, and I took some drum lessons. Even as a kid, I wanted to play drums. My parents didn’t let me play drums, but I’d always wanted to play drums. I took some drum lessons. It changed how I taught guitar. It completely changed how I thought about teaching guitar. And I started focusing more on the rhythmic aspects of guitar because I understood more about the drums and how that could relate to teaching guitar.
Mandy York (26:33):
Yeah, I love that.
John Kozicki (26:36):
Cool. Alright, so then why do we still, we collectively, as music instructors, as studio owners, why do we not talk about this? Why is the answer still, when the question from parents comes, how much time should my kid be practicing? Why is it still 20 minutes, 30 minutes?
Mandy York (27:00):
I mean, I think that’s the easy answer. I think that is, we’re getting the notes and instructions from the teachers at school about how many minutes of reading they need to do every day. So we can do that. This many minutes of reading and this many minutes of piano practice or whatever. It’s easiest for us to just put on the checkbox and set the timers
John Kozicki (27:25):
Or quantify it, as you said.
Mandy York (27:27):
Quantify. Yeah.
John Kozicki (27:29):
But I think we’ve talked about how that there’s no guarantee with that, right? I mean, there’s no guarantee that log this many hours and you will see this result. I’m just going to say it. I think it’s the lazy answer. Yeah, easy. I think easy. You’re on the spot and a parent asks, Hey, how much time? It’s the easy answer. Just be like, oh, 20 minutes, 20 minutes a day. Because a zillion other music teachers have said that. So why not just say that? And I think it’s harder to have this conversation about this whole other category of practice or what else counts as practice and why it’s so important. But I think when the answer is like, oh, 20 minutes a day, here’s what it does. It gets the instructor off the hook because they’ve given an answer that the parents will accept, gets the parents off the hook. Because now they’re just like, okay, well, I’ll set a timer for 20 minutes. But it places all of the burden on the student, 100% of the burden on the student, who is the one who has to be involved in this, who is the one who has to find joy in their practice to see improvement and to not burn out. But again, putting all that pressure and quantifying it and making it transactional, I think you’re setting the student up for burnout potentially,
Mandy York (29:05):
Or just a lesser experience. At a minimum. They’re just not going to have the same joyful music experience.
John Kozicki (29:16):
And again, I mean for the right student, that digs a challenge, logging some time for the right student who is motivated by that, it’s going to work, and that’s fine for a more advanced student who has higher aspirations and really needs to hone their craft. Yes, that’s important. So again, it’s not that skill building practice is not important, but I think it’s just a part of it. I think it’s a smaller part for many, many students. So I guess what advice should we get into that? I do like to try and offer advice for our brothers and sisters. In the trenches. Yes. In the
Mandy York (30:06):
Trenches. Yeah. Well, I would say so the goal here, if the goal, my goal for you is to foster joy to, and for your students to have meaningful musical experiences for them to become lifelong music makers. I mean, for me, I think about that a lot. And I have them so tiny. I think I’ve got this little one. I want them to be a lifelong music maker, right? Yes. Starting now forever and whatever that may be. Whatever looks like, because another conversation, so many different kinds of music bankers. But if that’s your joy, then you need to find this balance between the skill building and experiential practice
(30:54):
And to be creative with it. I mean, for me, it’s kind of in place already. It’s what I do in my classroom, it’s what I put out for my parents to foster at home. So it’s a lot of parent education to just keep playing and participating and to understand that that look can look different for your child as opposed to the other child sitting next to you. It can look different today than it will in eight weeks or two years to just accept what it is, what it looks like in your child. But in thinking about this for the older kids too, the meat in the middle idea where if you are giving your student exciting, fulfilling repertoire and also encouraging this experiential practice, which your list was a great one, it’s going to foster that creativity. It’s going to challenge the student, it’s going to expand their world. I think that that kind of becomes cyclical where if you are becoming excited about this experiential practice, then you’re going to be excited to develop your skill,
John Kozicki (32:13):
Right? Yes. So
Mandy York (32:15):
It comes full circle. It’s what drives the student.
John Kozicki (32:19):
And obviously, I mean, for me, running a rock school, I think I see it all the time because it’s built into what we do like that, playing those songs and talking with their band mates about music and exploring new music and sharing music. All of that stuff is sort of built into what we do at a rock school. I can see where it would be more difficult for a more traditional private lesson instructor and consider this, and I’ve thought about this a lot, where you’ve got a kid who is at a beginner stage or an early stage on their instrument, and week after week, they’re sitting with their instructor who is an expert, and they may not even be able to picture themselves playing this expert who has been playing for years and years and years and is a master of their craft. That can be a tough one for a certain kid, I think, right? Oh, yeah. Bridging that gap between where I am as a beginner kid student, and like, wow, how do I even get there? That can be intimidating, I think. And in those situations, talking about these other things, it’s sort of like, well, then you’re on the same level. If you can have a conversation with this instructor at the top of their game and this student who is a beginner, maybe if they’re just having a conversation about music, then there’s not that gap anymore.
Mandy York (34:05):
And how exciting for the student.
John Kozicki (34:07):
Yeah,
Mandy York (34:08):
Totally.
John Kozicki (34:09):
Alright, so my advice,
(34:11):
I think be bold enough to redefine practice. Be bold enough to have that conversation and say, when you’re asked, how much time should my kid practice every week? Just put it out there. Well, I think there’s a way to talk about practice without talking about time, because time is good for this kind of practice, which involves building skills, but here’s this other thing that’s going to also get them fired up and get your kid to the point where they want to explore music, where they want to play more. And then you start talking about this other category and talk about other ideas for what counts as practice. So that’s my advice because I mean, we don’t want the kids to burn out. We want ’em to be fired up all the time,
Mandy York (35:06):
And we have that goal of creating these lifelong music makers that are going to find joy in what they’re doing. This is the best way to do it.
John Kozicki (35:15):
Yes. Be less concerned about what you’re teaching them and more concerned about inspiring them to learn. How about that one?
Mandy York (35:24):
Yes.
John Kozicki (35:25):
Yeah. Alright, so I think we’re kind of coming to the tail end of this one, but I’ve got something a little bit different for this episode. So I put together a little worksheet, and for anyone who wants to download the worksheet, they’re going to be able to download this worksheet on practice, and it’s going to have all these points on it, so you can use it as a reference. You can use it to find inspiration and come up with new ways to talk about practice with parents, with students, with instructors. So if you want to get that worksheet and share that with your instructors or whoever, you can visit rock school proprietor.com, and that will be available for download.
Mandy York (36:12):
Awesome. I think that’s a great tool because that’s going to be one of the hardest things is finding the language and the ways to talk about this with parents.
John Kozicki (36:22):
Yes.
Mandy York (36:23):
So good work.
John Kozicki (36:24):
Yeah. Well, thank you. Well, so with that, I think we’re going to wrap up this episode of a rock school proprietor podcast. Thank you for listening. Mandy, once again, thank you for joining.
Mandy York (36:36):
Thank you, John. It was great.
John Kozicki (36:37):
We’ll see you next time.
Mandy York (36:39):
See you
John Kozicki (36:42):
Clearly. We’ve got thoughts on practice and I’m sure you do too. Or maybe you’ve just got questions and we’d love to hear from you and can reach us at info rock school proprietor.com. We’d love to consider your thoughts for future shows, show notes and transcripts for this, and all episodes can be found rockschoolproprietor.com. You can also find that worksheet there. I’m at Rock School proprietor on Instagram if you’d like to connect with me there. You can also find me on LinkedIn as John Kozicki. If you enjoyed this show and gained insight from our conversations, then we count that as a win. As always, all we ask in return is that you pay it forward. Please share the show with someone you think needs to hear it.
