In this episode of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast, John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and co-host Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) dive deep into the world of rock band programs. Whether you run a rock school format or are curious about expanding into band programs, this episode has got you covered.
John and Mandy explore the rock band model, discussing its benefits, especially in terms of student retention and motivation. Mandy takes the reins, asking the essential questions every music studio owner might have, from getting started to choosing the right repertoire and equipment.
In this episode:
The benefits of a band program and students playing as a group
Steps to starting a band program
Practical formula for a monthly band program
Growing and transitioning to a weekly band plus lessons program
Strategies to group students based on age and skill level
John shares a step-by-step formula for launching a successful rock band program in any studio, and creating a thriving community centered on playing music.
Don’t miss out on the FREE downloadable guide, How to Start (or Grow) a Rock Band Program In Your Music Lesson Studio, available at rockschoolproprietor.com, which includes song suggestions and practical steps to get your rock band program off the ground.
Episode Transcript:
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On this episode of Rock School Proprietor Podcast, we discuss,
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well, rock band programs, how the model works, and we even go step-by-step on
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how to start a rock band program in any studio.
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Music.
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This little rock school secret that we know about, but maybe private lesson-only
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studios don’t realize exists.
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It’s a huge benefit to the rock schools and it has to do with retention.
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This is rock band programs for dummies because if I were to do this right now,
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I don’t know where I would start.
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I think you can do this with any instrument.
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Like if you have a string program, why wouldn’t you put those students together to perform?
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Same benefit, slightly different application.
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Welcome to the Rock School Proprietor Podcast. I’m John Kozicki,
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but I’m not your host this time.
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Mandy York, we’re going to do a little twist, right? You are hosting. I am co-hosting.
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Yes, I’m taking the reins today. So watch out. This will be fun.
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Well, today I want to focus on the Rock School program, the rock band program.
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Okay. It’s about time, right?
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We’re how many episodes in right now of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast and
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we’re going to like dig into rock schools. I love it.
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Let’s do it. Yes. So, you know, I know you well, I have a daughter in your program.
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I admire the work that you do. You do a great job.
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You’ve got a great school. I love the culture there.
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So I know that you, you because I know you so well, right? I know that you have specific methods.
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You’re very intentional about what you do that you’ve developed and perfected over the years.
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So I know that our listeners can learn from you.
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Okay. I love this. I’m like the rock school dummy.
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This is rock band programs for dummies because Because if I were to do this
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right now, and I run a successful program doing what I do with my group. Very successful.
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And I’ll just, so this isn’t too one-sided. I’ve had, I’ve done your program
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too. I’ve had my son in your program and it’s wonderful.
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I love that about this. Yes. Yeah. But.
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If I were to start a rock band program, I don’t know where I would start.
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Okay. So that’s why I’m saying this is Rock Band for Dummies.
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Rock Band for Dummies. Rock School for Dummies. That’s the best title ever.
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But I’m the dummy, not the listeners. The listeners are going to learn from my dummy questions.
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Okay. Okay. All right. Let’s start from the beginning. I love it. Yeah. Yes.
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Okay. Okay. So let’s say I have an established music school academy,
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right? Right. We’re teaching traditional lessons.
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But I see the benefits and potential and probably even, you know,
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maybe I’m getting some feedback from families like this is something that they
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would like to see and they would like to participate in. Right. Yeah. Okay.
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Okay. So I want to do this. Where do I start?
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I’ve kind of made a list of questions here. And as I wrote them down,
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I realized I tried to start at the beginning and work my way down.
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But I’ve noticed that some of these things are like cyclical. Like, you’ll see.
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So you’re going to have to help me guide, help guide this conversation.
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Okay. All right. Because I think we’re going to go to A to D to B to help me out here. Okay.
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Okay. The first thing I thought of was instructors.
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Yeah. Okay. Right. Because I have instructors in place, but I need to transition
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them into this group class environment.
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Mm-hmm. Do you use your existing instructors? Okay. Okay.
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So let’s so before we get into that, because I think help me out. Yeah.
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Help me. I want to paint that picture.
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I want you to paint that picture for me again of what your current studio looks like.
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Okay and you mentioned i think something super important which
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is benefits like maybe some parents have said hey this
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seems like a cool thing could you offer it and maybe you’ve realized
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like there are benefits so could we talk about in in your rock school for dummies
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academy what like just a quick what your studio looks like you’re doing private
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lessons and that’s is that all you’re doing, like maybe what instruments,
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how many instructors,
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like what you’re, you know, and then what you see as the benefits or yeah,
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let’s, let’s talk about the benefits first.
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Okay. You’re very good in this consulting role. Thank you. Very good.
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Okay. So the benefits, well, I mean, as a business owner, initially I’m hearing
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from my clients that have you ever thought about And I mean,
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this happens in real life, too, right?
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I feel like I get input from my clients all the time.
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Have you thought about doing this? So as a business owner, I’m hearing a need,
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right? Or I’m hearing a desire for additional programming.
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So that’s motivating me. But I also see that, well, I’m a musician and I know
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that making music together is part of the magic of music, right?
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And the music that we’re making in these private lessons, a lot of them,
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they’re playing songs that were performed by bands, right?
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Yeah, yeah. Or contemporary artists or pop musicians. Yeah.
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Yes. So…
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So I see the value in that, right? We’re making this, we’re learning this rock
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band, popular, contemporary music.
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Doesn’t it make sense to get the kids together, right? And I can see how that…
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Yeah, so you’re talking about like kind of that next logical step of taking
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the skills that they’ve acquired in their lessons and applying them.
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So the practical application.
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Yeah. So, there’s this, I mean, I know a few other, well, I know quite a few
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other rock school proprietors, rock school owners like myself.
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And there’s like this, I feel like it’s like this little secret,
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this little rock school secret that we know about, but maybe the private lesson
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only studios don’t realize exists.
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It’s a huge benefit to the rock schools and their programs, and it has to do with the retention.
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Because what we know,
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I mean, I know this, I see it with my students, and I’ve, again,
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I’ve verified this with other rock school owners, is that the students who are
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participating in the rock band program,
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the students who are applying the skills that they’ve learned,
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the students who who are then forming friendships with other kids around music,
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those students have a longer lifespan in our studio.
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We see fewer turnovers with those students versus the students who are just in private lessons.
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So that’s like kind of this hidden benefit that I don’t know if you even thought about.
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Yes, no. I mean, I didn’t think about that in preparing for this,
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but it makes perfect sense, right?
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Absolutely. And you mentioned in a previous episode, right, when you first started
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taking guitar lessons, you were trying to form your band before you even started,
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could play the guitar, right?
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Right. Yeah. That’s what these kids want to do.
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That’s their mindset when they’re trying to learn an instrument.
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And I am also of the belief, too, and I don’t want to make this just about,
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like, quote, unquote, the rock instruments, but I think you can do this with any instrument.
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Like, if you have a string program, like, why wouldn’t you put those people together?
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Why wouldn’t you put those students together to perform?
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You know, same benefit, like, slightly different application.
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You know, why wouldn’t you do that? If you’ve got like, I don’t know,
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if you teach, teach like concert band instruments, teach horns,
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you know, like mall ensembles or something like, like it’s easy to do this.
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Yes, absolutely. I think then all of a sudden, again, whatever instruments you
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focus on, if you apply this same thought process,
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the application of the skills that they’re learning in private lessons,
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then they’re forming friendships, then you’re increasing your retention.
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So I don’t think it’s just exclusive to rock schools.
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No. And the Suzuki method teaches, you know, string lessons to groups.
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They do group classes starting from an early age. Absolutely.
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And I mean, I can give the anecdote of my husband teaching middle school band,
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solo and ensemble, festival season.
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Oh, he loves putting together those little quartets or duets. The kids really thrive.
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They’re motivated by each other. It’s a different…
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It’s a different application yeah working in a
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group like that yeah for sure yeah okay so
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i mean there’s tons of benefits i think we
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could like we could go on and on about the benefits but so we
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identified a few now again as i’m
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like kind of acting as consultant to rock
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school for dummies what is what’s your studio what
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do you do in your studio like what what do you offer how
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many instructors do you have what instruments do you
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teach we have we have
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a dozen instructors oh okay
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that’s a lot it’s a lot well i mean hey we’re very successful okay maybe maybe
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a dozen instructors okay um i don’t know you got to help me out here what a
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typical school would look like well i don’t think there’s a typical right okay
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you know i think it can be anything and i think I think, like,
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I even see a path to starting a rock band program if you are just a single instructor.
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I like, and maybe what we’ll do is kind of at the end. Actually,
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you know what? I probably already have this stuff available.
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Yeah, I’ll do, I’ll put a worksheet together. And, like, people can download
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it. This is how to start a rock band program.
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Love it. Yes, that’s good. Well, I’m imagining like a healthy,
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you know, pretty big center, I suppose,
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with a variety of instructors and instruments, guitar, drums. Yes.
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I wasn’t thinking string instruments, but I was thinking, you know,
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maybe we’ve got a few after-school wind kids, right?
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Yeah. Stuff like that. So we give private lessons only. Mm-hmm.
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Oh, keyboard too, right? Keyboards. Okay. All right.
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We have private lessons only, and if you choose, you can sign up to participate
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in our recital that we do twice a year. Yeah.
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Okay. If you choose. Okay. If you choose. If you choose. All right.
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That’s the real low pressure. Like, OK, we do this thing. We offer this.
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And some people do it. Some people don’t. Yeah. OK. It’s strongly encouraged.
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But you know what? If we do this twice a year and whoever wants to participate, they sign up.
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And is it kind of a traditional recital in which, you know, maybe you’ve got
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an instructor accompanying a student, but for the most part,
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it’s solo performances?
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Exactly yep okay so we we secure
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a venue and yep sometimes the instructor will
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back up the student we also
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have just solo players yeah that’s what
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our recital looks like all right got it got it so your goal is now well i mean
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you you answer my question because i’m just trying So your goal is to kind of
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create a bit more dynamic environment amongst the students,
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provide that practical application,
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create a path for them to play some rock songs, some pop songs,
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some contemporary music that really resonates with the student.
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Maybe your performance is spiced up
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a little bit right so that it’s not it’s
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not as as much a recital in that like yeah
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people attend and the parents are all enjoying their students performances but
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maybe you know out of respect they’re there for the other students not necessarily
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like loving it so generate a little bit more excitement in the performance okay
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all right all good to have Group performances,
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groups of students rather than just the solo student.
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Call it a concert. Don’t call it a recital.
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That’s important, right? Yeah. In the transition. Okay. Yeah.
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Okay. All right. I’ve got a good picture of now what your studio looks like.
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I’ve got a good picture of maybe where you want to go.
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What do you envision, I guess, in your mind, what you want it to look like also?
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Well, I want to develop this exciting culture and environment where we foster
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the relationships and bands, right?
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The kids are having fun together, making music together, and we give these exciting performances.
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But I, you know, do I, am I using my existing instructors?
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Do we, you know, how do we kind of break everything up?
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Yeah. Is it best to kind of bring in fresh face to start a program like this?
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Hmm. All good questions. I think. Okay.
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So what I would say now, I’m making an assumption again, because like we know
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one another personally and your daughter comes to Michigan Rock School.
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But what we do at Michigan Rock School now is like, it’s like 10 years of,
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it’s a decade of nurturing and building this rock band program to what it is and how it exists today.
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And I think our last concert, we had like 19 groups and I think performed 70
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some songs over the course of two days.
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So that’s like, it’s pretty big. Mm-hmm.
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And that’s, again, that’s like working at it over time.
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But if I were to get in my time machine and go back to maybe like eight years
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ago, or maybe nine years ago,
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where it was more or less just me kind of like slogging through all of this
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and figuring out, okay, how am I going to build this program?
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That might be a better place for a studio that you’re describing to start at,
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to to figure out like what do we want it to look like?
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Maybe I would say first.
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Assess what resources you have in your studio already and what you were saying
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about like the instructors.
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Well, do you utilize your existing instructors?
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Do you bring in new instructors? I think it’s gonna vary based on your situation.
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Situation you know do you have an
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instructor who seems maybe motivated to
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head this program up or or even just do a little bit more to kind of get that
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ball rolling to see students playing together well maybe that’s your person
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maybe you as the studio owner maybe you’re motivated enough to say say,
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I see how this is going to work.
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I don’t know if any of my existing instructors necessarily could take the reins
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and lead a band rehearsal, but I feel confident I could because I see the vision.
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Maybe that’s the way you go.
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So I think there’s a lot of different things that you could do.
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But then you also want to identify what are your obstacles?
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Do you have the equipment you know that’s like a that’s a pretty simple one
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and i don’t think you need a lot of equipment what do you need you need like
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a pa for some vocals you need some guitar amps you need like a drum set maybe
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and you know if you if you’re already teaching,
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multiple instruments you probably have all that stuff other logistics do you have a room,
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Yes. See, that was my question.
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We’ve got was what kind of equipment is necessary?
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Like you said, if if we’re already teaching these things, we we probably don’t
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need to invest in more. Correct. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That’s a great. OK.
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And as we grow, we’ll be able to. Right.
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And exactly. Maybe you have a vision like, oh, I would really love to have this
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type of electronic drum set or maybe like a hybrid drum set,
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or I’d really love to have this kind of PA or these microphones or these mic
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stands or, you know, like, yeah, all that stuff adds up.
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But you don’t necessarily have to start and say, first, I need to buy all this gear.
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You know, you just you assess what your assets are already.
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And then you assess what your obstacles are.
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Start with what we have. Yeah. So maybe you don’t have a PA, right?
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That might be one you don’t have. Maybe you’ve got all the guitar amps.
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Maybe you have a drum set. Maybe you got a bass amp.
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Maybe you don’t have a PA. Well, okay. So you spend a couple hundred bucks,
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you get a small practice PA, and there you go.
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Yep. Okay. That makes this process a little less scary for me because I know
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that I have most of the equipment I have, that I already have most of the equipment that I need.
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But yeah the space i’m curious
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about i mean like me
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my personality i’m i’m about ready to ask you like square footage how many square
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feet but you know yeah like tell me a little bit about like what size room what
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kind of soundproofing i don’t know is it a lot louder than in your private it?
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Instruction rooms? It depends. You know, if you utilize an electronic drum,
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the drums are always the loudest, right?
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Like in a BAM setting, you can’t, if you’re using acoustic drums,
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well, you can’t play any quieter than the drums, right?
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And that’s going to vary based on whoever’s playing the drums.
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Someone who hits hard is going to play louder. Someone who hits soft is gonna play quieter, right?
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So you don’t have control over that unless you have an electronic drum kit.
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And at Michigan Rock School, that’s what we use for rehearsals because then
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we have control over the volume of the drums.
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That’s crucial so that you can get a good mix. Yeah, that’s a great tip.
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And if you have other lessons going on in your studio.
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Like where my studio is, we had one big room that already existed when I leased the space.
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Square footage. It’s about 200 to 250 square feet.
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Okay. So we can fit seven teenagers in that room comfortably.
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Okay. That’s a good marker. Not much more than that. With smaller kids, we can fit more kids.
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And that’s all going to vary based on the size of the kid. And so we use an
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electronic drum kit because the existing room, we weren’t able to put any soundproofing
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inside the walls, right?
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So you’ve got to, you know, you consider that. Now, I’ve also run rock band
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programs in larger spaces.
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My previous music school, I would say the rehearsal room was probably closer
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to between 300 and 400 square feet.
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So a little bit bigger i’ve used
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spaces that were around 400 square feet i’ve like you
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don’t even need to necessarily do your rehearsals
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or your your band program in
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your studio you could find like maybe you do it at a venue right maybe you maybe
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you like contact a venue and say hey can we utilize your your stage on a sunday
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afternoon for a few hours.
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Maybe you do something like that maybe you find a space in a church so i think
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you got to put your creative creative hat on if when you’re addressing what
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these obstacles are and figure out like okay do i is this an asset that i have
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do i have a big room or is there an obstacle i i don’t have this Okay.
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Yeah. All right. Well, you said, I might be jumping ahead, but you’ve said you
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can fit seven teenagers in this space comfortably, right?
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I wondered about how do I, how do I create these groups?
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Seven seems kind of big to me for a band.
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So it sounds like you have plenty of room. What is a good size band and what
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kind of instrumentation do I need to make sure that I have? I mean,
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it’s going to vary. I think it’s going to vary.
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I always approach these groups and providing this opportunity for the students as a,
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like, I want to make it happen because I believe so strongly in the benefits
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that the students are going to get from this program.
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So I try and eliminate any sort of preconceived notions about what a band should look like.
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Right like and and i’ll always cite when i’m talking to maybe like my band coaches
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who are pushing back or parents who are like well don’t they need like one drummer
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and one vocalist and two guitar players and one bass player no like the white
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stripes didn’t need any of that right.
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What’s another the royal blood there’s another two-piece band they didn’t need
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any of that You know, there’s the Eagles had two drummers at one point, I think,
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you know, so I will always prioritize providing the experience for the students
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over what the configuration of like a quote unquote band should look like.
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Right. So I want to facilitate this because I believe the benefit is so strong
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to the students that let’s eliminate any of those preconceived notions about
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what you need in terms of instrumentation.
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Okay. Yes. If you’ve got a tuba player at your school, he’s the one tuba player
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who comes for private lessons, but you don’t have any bass students who want
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to do this, then get the tuba player in that room.
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Yes. You know? Yes. That’s what I’m getting at. That’s great because I can only
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imagine how the scheduling is for this, right?
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It’s got to be tricky. And if you do kind of let go of that restriction of the
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number of guitars and the number of, you know, bass players you need to have,
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that makes this much easier.
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Sure, we’ve got room for another singer in this group and include as many as
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you can. Yeah. Good. Okay.
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That makes it less stressful for me starting out. So let’s do this,
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because I see this veering into, like, I want to answer all your questions,
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your specific questions.
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But like, at the same time, what I want to do is…
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Like I, there is a, there’s a formula that I’ve been using for, for like so long.
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And this is the formula I use to kind of start the rock band program at Michigan rock school.
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It’s the formula that I used in my previous music school to kind of get things going.
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We still even utilize this formula in a certain sense at Michigan rock school
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now, even though we have like a, you know, really robust rock band program.
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So I want to lay that out and how to do it but i
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also want to like answer your questions too well
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hey we want we want your formula so give
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us the formula yes are there other questions that
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you feel like you you need answered
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i want to know the formula first i knew
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okay and then i want to see if it answers my questions and i’ll okay i’ll pick
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all right so this is i’ll lay out the formula and this is what i’ll also i’ll
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kind of create this as sort of like a downloadable resource for the listeners to to kind of utilize,
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so what this formula is this is a way that that i built the rock band program
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at michigan rock school again i’ve utilized this so many times and it requires
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maybe two hours of work a month.
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And generates like I would say anywhere
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from I mean I guess it depends on your application but
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I could see anywhere from 50 to 90 percent profit margin from this program so
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it’s a really simple formula really easy to implement in the front end doesn’t
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require a lot of work what you do is number one.
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And, you know, obviously there’s like marketing involved. I won’t get into the
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marketing and how to like promote this to your students yet,
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but assuming that you already have,
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like, let’s say you’ve got a hundred students in your private lesson only studio
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and you’ve got a mix of mix of instruments that you teach and you have this
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idea that you want to implement.
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And this, which instructor is going to do this. Let’s say like I did this by
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myself when I was starting Michigan Rock School.
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But let’s say you’ve got an instructor, like maybe he’s a guitar instructor
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who’s like, oh, this would be great.
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I love this idea. I want to facilitate this.
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So you sit down with that instructor and you say what we’re going to do is we
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are going to we’re just going to do a once per month rock band program and the
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beginning of every month we’re going to choose one song and that’s going to
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be the one song that at the end of the month,
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any students who participate in our rock band program are going to get together
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and they’re They’re going to work on playing this song together.
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I mean, and there’s variations of this. You could implement a performance or
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you could make it just like the experience first, right? I’ve done both.
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So beginning of the month, you say to this instructor, let’s choose a song that’s
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like a pretty easy enough song for a good portion of our students to be able to learn.
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So, you know, your smart guitar instructor is going to help you brainstorm on that.
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And then you’re also going to have your instructor plan to facilitate this rehearsal
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or jam or whatever it is at the end of the month.
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You know, maybe do it on like a Saturday or like a time when you’re not usually
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as busy with the private lessons.
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So, it’s not like you’re taking away from from utilizing
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your space so you
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choose that song then you announce it to all the
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your other instructors hey we’re doing this cool jam
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we’re gonna do this every month this month
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this is the song I want all of your students to learn in private lessons okay
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and then they can choose to either participate in the jam or not right but if
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they’re gonna participate then you you know you contact the parents register
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them for however much you you want to charge the registration,
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so all the students during the month are working
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on learning this song then at the
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end so you’re not you know as a studio owner you’re
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not you’re not losing any
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money paying instructors to teach this
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song because they’re already in their private lessons the
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kids are already in their private lessons so these kids
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are individually learning this song in their private lesson and
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then at the end of the month all the kids who participate are gonna
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show up for this jam you’ve got the one instructor who’s gonna facilitate
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it it’s gonna be like an extra hour of
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his time that you’re gonna pay him for but you know then you’re gonna have like
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I don’t know ten kids come to this jam and then all of a sudden what are you
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paying for you’re paying for like maybe another hour or two of of time for the
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instructor plus Plus, you know, administrative time.
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And you’ve generated like this cool little program that like took almost no work to put together.
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Yes. Yes. I love that.
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And yeah, so easy, so simple. And it’s giving the kids a taste of this.
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And they’re going to love it. And here’s what’s going to happen.
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Because again, I’ve done this.
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What’s going to happen is that immediately after, the kids are going to be like, oh, that’s so fun.
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Can I do it again and then you
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just say to your instructor hey what song
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are we gonna do next month and you start that
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cycle all over again now I’ve done
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variations of this where like I used to do this again maybe eight years ago
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it became so popular that the kids didn’t want to wait a month they wanted to
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do it every week mm-hmm and that’s that’s one of the strategies I used to build
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the program at Michigan Rock School.
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Yes. I love that. That’s brilliant.
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Because here I am trying to figure out how I’m going to start this rock band.
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And I’m thinking, how are people going to buy in and just sign up for rock band
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on Tuesday night with four other kids that they don’t know?
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That’s perfect. You’re just easing them into it, showing them how easy it is
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to learn a tune and then get together with others.
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And and jam well and the barriers that
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you face from you mentioned the scheduling and
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the parents right the barriers that you face or the pushback that you might
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get is so minimal because what are they doing well they’re committing to an
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extra hour at the end of the month yeah what are they like financially like
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what are you in charge like 40 bucks something like that you know it’s like Like, it’s so,
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the barrier is so, like, minimal that you can get them to buy in.
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And then all of a sudden you realize, and they realize, the benefit that they’re
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getting from this versus the cost is, like, the scales are so imbalanced,
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right? The benefit’s, like, way up here.
421
00:31:37,790 –> 00:31:40,430
The cost is way down here. Yes.
422
00:31:41,470 –> 00:31:44,350
Side benefit. Okay, let’s talk about other benefits here.
423
00:31:46,790 –> 00:31:52,910
Let’s talk about all those private instructors who are teaching these kids during the month.
424
00:31:53,510 –> 00:31:58,250
Well, all of a sudden, there’s this built-in objective, there’s this built-in
425
00:31:58,250 –> 00:31:59,510
goal for each one of those students.
426
00:32:00,230 –> 00:32:03,070
So the students are anticipating, I’m going to have to do this,
427
00:32:03,190 –> 00:32:05,710
I’m going to have to play this with other people, right? So they’re going to
428
00:32:05,710 –> 00:32:06,790
be a little bit more attentive.
429
00:32:07,973 –> 00:32:11,473
Assuming they love it, assuming they love the experience, well,
430
00:32:11,513 –> 00:32:16,553
then all of a sudden that kid who was maybe just doing private lessons before has a greater purpose.
431
00:32:17,133 –> 00:32:20,653
And when the student has a greater purpose, the instructor is going to look
432
00:32:20,653 –> 00:32:24,113
at that kid like, this student is great.
433
00:32:24,253 –> 00:32:27,593
This kid wants to learn. This kid wants to practice. This kid wants to play.
434
00:32:28,153 –> 00:32:32,913
They don’t have to work any harder because that one instructor who’s leading
435
00:32:32,913 –> 00:32:36,733
your rock band program each month is saying like, here, just work on this with them.
436
00:32:37,113 –> 00:32:39,413
For the next four weeks. You’re going to work on this with them.
437
00:32:39,953 –> 00:32:42,813
So they don’t have to do any more work. It’s easy.
438
00:32:43,333 –> 00:32:48,733
They have a lesson plan already established for a month. The kids are motivated to do it. Yeah.
439
00:32:49,353 –> 00:32:53,233
Yeah. And we’ve talked about that motivation loop a little bit before,
440
00:32:53,373 –> 00:32:56,473
you know, when they get excited about this program all month long,
441
00:32:56,673 –> 00:32:58,033
like I’m going to have to play this.
442
00:32:58,113 –> 00:33:00,373
This is what we’re working on. I can’t wait to jam with my friends.
443
00:33:00,813 –> 00:33:04,073
They’re excited to practice more. They’re excited to keep coming. Right.
444
00:33:04,373 –> 00:33:11,013
Yeah. That motivation is driving them because they’re having really fulfilling
445
00:33:11,013 –> 00:33:14,513
musical experiences. Exactly. It’s an amazing circle, right?
446
00:33:15,153 –> 00:33:19,513
Everyone’s benefiting. The student is seeing like, oh my gosh,
447
00:33:19,593 –> 00:33:23,133
I am actually doing this thing that I’ve been practicing, right?
448
00:33:23,193 –> 00:33:24,293
I’m not practicing anymore.
449
00:33:24,413 –> 00:33:29,473
I’m actually doing the thing. And when I am practicing, there’s a purpose for my practice.
450
00:33:29,893 –> 00:33:34,873
So they’re benefiting. The parents are like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
451
00:33:35,233 –> 00:33:39,973
I’d never seen this before in my student, in my kid. like I don’t have to ask
452
00:33:39,973 –> 00:33:44,233
them to practice they’re doing it on their own and then the instructors are
453
00:33:44,233 –> 00:33:50,833
like this is so much easier you know because I mean we’ve all had those students that are kind of like.
454
00:33:51,796 –> 00:33:56,196
I had one. I remember this kid. I don’t remember the kid’s name,
455
00:33:56,356 –> 00:34:03,536
but he walked into his lesson almost every week and would like brag about how he didn’t practice.
456
00:34:03,876 –> 00:34:07,916
I didn’t practice once this week. All right.
457
00:34:08,356 –> 00:34:13,816
Okay. Let’s see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you don’t have those.
458
00:34:14,256 –> 00:34:17,496
Like, I shouldn’t say you don’t have those. You will have those students.
459
00:34:18,116 –> 00:34:21,336
But you can then can try and convince them like hey you maybe
460
00:34:21,336 –> 00:34:24,316
you want to try this it’s pretty fun yeah i
461
00:34:24,316 –> 00:34:27,676
know it’s it would it’s amazing it
462
00:34:27,676 –> 00:34:30,416
would be really interesting to see what that
463
00:34:30,416 –> 00:34:34,436
kind of motivation and program would do to that student that
464
00:34:34,436 –> 00:34:37,996
is coming in kind of like i don’t really practice this week but
465
00:34:37,996 –> 00:34:41,056
get them in this monthly you know
466
00:34:41,056 –> 00:34:43,796
rock band jam yeah what what does
467
00:34:43,796 –> 00:34:46,716
that do for their motivation again that’s that it’s that
468
00:34:46,716 –> 00:34:50,136
secret that the rock school owners the
469
00:34:50,136 –> 00:34:57,516
rock school directors understand right this is like this is the thing that keeps
470
00:34:57,516 –> 00:35:02,296
the kids motivated this is the thing that gets them fired up and creates that
471
00:35:02,296 –> 00:35:07,496
culture improves retention produces
472
00:35:07,756 –> 00:35:11,216
students that are easier to teach, more fun to teach.
473
00:35:11,376 –> 00:35:16,056
So like when your instructors have more of those students, well,
474
00:35:16,156 –> 00:35:18,956
then they’re happier with their job, right?
475
00:35:19,136 –> 00:35:23,256
Oh, yeah. Yeah. More fulfilling for them too. Yeah. Yes.
476
00:35:23,776 –> 00:35:28,436
Okay. So you’ve made this really easy for me to start. And you’ve answered my
477
00:35:28,436 –> 00:35:31,696
questions about staffing, right?
478
00:35:32,216 –> 00:35:35,276
And about choosing rep.
479
00:35:36,358 –> 00:35:40,558
And I guess I’m just assuming, like, that’s something we can do, right?
480
00:35:40,718 –> 00:35:45,438
You, your staff, you can come up with that repertoire, that music,
481
00:35:45,818 –> 00:35:46,958
you know, the easy stuff.
482
00:35:47,278 –> 00:35:49,598
I’ll tell you what, you know, I’m even going to write a note.
483
00:35:49,698 –> 00:35:54,738
I will, I’ll even write, I’ll even put some song suggestions in that,
484
00:35:54,778 –> 00:35:59,958
in the, like, downloadable little worksheet or guide or whatever.
485
00:36:00,618 –> 00:36:03,638
Yeah. I like that. Okay. Okay.
486
00:36:04,558 –> 00:36:12,178
And I also had wondered about how do private lessons fit into the rock band program?
487
00:36:12,378 –> 00:36:17,218
And in this phase one, you’ve explained it, right? They’re working on the song
488
00:36:17,218 –> 00:36:20,338
in their lesson and then meeting once a month.
489
00:36:21,498 –> 00:36:25,878
What’s my next step? What’s your next step? Pick a song, pick a day.
490
00:36:27,178 –> 00:36:32,298
That’s it. That’s it. I mean, if you’ve identified like, you know,
491
00:36:32,298 –> 00:36:35,938
if you’ve identified those other obstacles, like, do I need to buy equipment?
492
00:36:36,158 –> 00:36:40,038
Do I need to, I mean, do you have an adequate space?
493
00:36:40,598 –> 00:36:45,378
You know, if you’ve kind of tackled those things, well, you know,
494
00:36:45,378 –> 00:36:48,798
and then there’s kind of, again, we talked about there’s the marketing, right? Right.
495
00:36:48,858 –> 00:36:53,598
But like on a small scale, just create a flyer, create a flyer,
496
00:36:53,598 –> 00:36:59,498
give it to students, send an email to parents with the same information on the flyer. Yeah.
497
00:36:59,898 –> 00:37:03,918
Yeah. OK, so you’re saying once we’ve got this once a month program rolling,
498
00:37:04,138 –> 00:37:10,898
it’ll be easier to, you know, pick a day and start rehearsing on a weekly basis.
499
00:37:11,258 –> 00:37:13,918
Is that what you’re telling me? Because that’s my question. You know,
500
00:37:13,938 –> 00:37:18,198
so you want to you want to make this like next level. So, okay.
501
00:37:18,358 –> 00:37:22,978
Yeah. I mean, I can see staying here for a little while. Totally. This works.
502
00:37:23,938 –> 00:37:29,178
But when I’m ready and they want more, is it just the same thing? So, okay.
503
00:37:29,718 –> 00:37:33,798
I’m a little more, you know, I’m formalizing my schedule and getting these kids in on a weekly basis.
504
00:37:34,138 –> 00:37:39,238
It’s similar. Okay, so let’s say, again, I’ll give you a formula that I utilized at one point.
505
00:37:39,418 –> 00:37:44,198
So yeah, let’s say you’ve been doing this and let’s say you’ve got,
506
00:37:44,838 –> 00:37:49,958
I don’t know, let’s say you’ve got 15 students who are consistently every month,
507
00:37:50,638 –> 00:37:51,998
doing your once per month jam.
508
00:37:52,338 –> 00:37:56,278
And they’re just begging you to do this more frequently.
509
00:37:56,578 –> 00:38:01,118
Right? That’s what I’m talking about. Okay, okay. Well then, so let’s do this.
510
00:38:01,378 –> 00:38:05,118
Let’s say, all right, we’re still gonna do a song every month.
511
00:38:06,399 –> 00:38:15,439
But instead of only rehearsing it once per month, we’re going to have a rehearsal every week.
512
00:38:16,319 –> 00:38:21,599
And then at the end of, say, three months, we’re going to do a performance.
513
00:38:22,299 –> 00:38:27,839
So now you still have that once per, you know, you’re focusing on one song per month.
514
00:38:27,919 –> 00:38:32,619
So the students still have adequate time to focus on it, right?
515
00:38:32,739 –> 00:38:35,739
But they’re doing a rehearsal every week. So that’s going to compound.
516
00:38:36,399 –> 00:38:39,619
They’re going to get better and better. So maybe it’s January.
517
00:38:39,659 –> 00:38:41,239
You do one song and then February.
518
00:38:41,519 –> 00:38:46,039
All right, we’re moving on to the next song. Let’s keep playing this one maybe
519
00:38:46,039 –> 00:38:49,779
once every rehearsal, the January song. But here’s our new song for February.
520
00:38:50,459 –> 00:38:53,979
So you’re focusing on that February song mostly, but you’re keeping January
521
00:38:53,979 –> 00:38:55,659
song fresh. Then March comes along.
522
00:38:55,859 –> 00:38:59,359
Okay, new song in March. All right, we’re going to focus on mostly the March
523
00:38:59,359 –> 00:39:03,099
song, but we’re going to once per practice, once per rehearsal,
524
00:39:03,219 –> 00:39:05,139
we’re going to play the January and the February song. on.
525
00:39:05,299 –> 00:39:07,899
And then at the end of March, we’re going to have a performance.
526
00:39:08,959 –> 00:39:11,619
We’re going to invite all your parents and all your friends,
527
00:39:11,719 –> 00:39:14,119
and it’s going to be at a cool venue and they’re going to love it.
528
00:39:14,499 –> 00:39:17,659
And we’re going to call it a concert. Yeah. You’re going to call it a concert.
529
00:39:18,879 –> 00:39:23,779
All right. And then, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. So when we’re doing this,
530
00:39:23,879 –> 00:39:26,219
how important are my private lessons?
531
00:39:26,839 –> 00:39:31,379
Do I still need private lessons? They’re so important, right? Because like,
532
00:39:31,379 –> 00:39:35,939
so what we do, and I would encourage anyone who tries to implement this type
533
00:39:35,939 –> 00:39:40,859
of program is you still want to rely on your private instructors to keep the
534
00:39:40,859 –> 00:39:43,039
kids accountable and ready for band rehearsals.
535
00:39:43,920 –> 00:39:47,100
So you’re not teaching these songs in your in your
536
00:39:47,100 –> 00:39:51,320
rehearsals you’re you you’re perfecting
537
00:39:51,320 –> 00:39:54,320
them you’re putting together as a group you’re teaching this whole different set
538
00:39:54,320 –> 00:39:57,040
of skills which is like how to play with other
539
00:39:57,040 –> 00:40:02,700
musicians right because it’s no longer about the the minutia of like where do
540
00:40:02,700 –> 00:40:06,620
i put my fingers what is the rhythm that i play it’s about how does this thing
541
00:40:06,620 –> 00:40:07,940
that i’ve been working on in
542
00:40:07,940 –> 00:40:14,620
my private lessons fit into this this bigger thing this greater thing to,
543
00:40:15,280 –> 00:40:21,420
to put on a performance or to play with a band good all right so we keep up
544
00:40:21,420 –> 00:40:26,620
with those private lessons yes absolutely and for the kids who and then you’re
545
00:40:26,620 –> 00:40:34,120
going to have variations in in in how quickly or slowly kids learn in that group, right?
546
00:40:34,220 –> 00:40:40,460
So the kids who may be quicker, well, their private instructors are going to
547
00:40:40,460 –> 00:40:41,600
know. They’re going to see that.
548
00:40:41,740 –> 00:40:45,940
And then you instruct them like, all right, well, keep challenging them.
549
00:40:45,980 –> 00:40:49,480
Find harder parts for them to do in this song.
550
00:40:49,660 –> 00:40:54,900
Or maybe challenge them in different ways. Start to teach them the theory behind what they’re doing.
551
00:40:56,620 –> 00:41:02,220
You don’t want to just rest on like, okay, you’ve got the song down on week two.
552
00:41:02,920 –> 00:41:06,720
Let’s just keep playing the song for the next two weeks. You want to find ways
553
00:41:06,720 –> 00:41:09,320
to challenge those students who are excelling.
554
00:41:10,612 –> 00:41:14,732
And then some students are going to need all four weeks to get the song down.
555
00:41:14,812 –> 00:41:16,192
Some students are going to need
556
00:41:16,192 –> 00:41:21,372
all four weeks and maybe still won’t be totally prepared for the song.
557
00:41:21,512 –> 00:41:25,712
But when they get in that band rehearsal, it’s kind of sink or swim.
558
00:41:26,312 –> 00:41:31,632
And then all of a sudden they realize, oh, I’ve got to put these skills to work in a different way.
559
00:41:31,732 –> 00:41:35,292
And they learn quicker because they’re in a different setting. Mm hmm.
560
00:41:35,792 –> 00:41:41,432
Cool. All right. So when I’m starting out, I am just forming these groups,
561
00:41:41,552 –> 00:41:44,432
you know, based on who’s available when.
562
00:41:44,572 –> 00:41:47,712
Right. We talked about that. Maybe I’ve got two singers. Maybe I’ve got three
563
00:41:47,712 –> 00:41:49,012
guitar players. Doesn’t matter.
564
00:41:49,212 –> 00:41:52,532
But as we progress and like you’re talking about skill level,
565
00:41:52,792 –> 00:41:56,972
do you have you gotten to a point in your program or do you even think about
566
00:41:56,972 –> 00:41:59,752
separating the students by ability?
567
00:42:00,372 –> 00:42:04,112
Yes. Like, these are, you do. Yeah. That’s something you’re conscious about.
568
00:42:04,532 –> 00:42:10,392
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, we try and, we try and group the kids on,
569
00:42:10,572 –> 00:42:14,412
you know, like, age and skill level.
570
00:42:14,572 –> 00:42:19,332
So, we have a way that we sort of assess, all right, where, where are all these
571
00:42:19,332 –> 00:42:20,992
students at in terms of their abilities?
572
00:42:22,212 –> 00:42:27,332
We’ll put all of these students in category one. We’ll put all these students in category two.
573
00:42:29,432 –> 00:42:33,032
So, yeah, that’s where it gets, like, way trickier because you’re looking at
574
00:42:33,032 –> 00:42:34,072
all these different variables.
575
00:42:35,692 –> 00:42:42,192
But if you’re also looking at, like, 70 students, you know, within those variables,
576
00:42:42,392 –> 00:42:44,652
then you can kind of find matches. It gets hard.
577
00:42:44,832 –> 00:42:47,792
You know, don’t get me wrong. When we plan our band sessions,
578
00:42:48,252 –> 00:42:54,312
it’s a good few weeks that we’re working on coordinating the groups and understanding,
579
00:42:54,472 –> 00:42:56,632
like, who’s going to fit with whom.
580
00:42:56,632 –> 00:43:02,352
And there’s a lot of variables involved and we don’t always get it perfect but.
581
00:43:03,815 –> 00:43:06,795
Yeah for us we sort of look at skill level and age as
582
00:43:06,795 –> 00:43:09,795
sort of the important things because again i
583
00:43:09,795 –> 00:43:13,595
think there’s two benefits in in
584
00:43:13,595 –> 00:43:16,635
these these rock band programs one is that sense of accomplishment
585
00:43:16,635 –> 00:43:19,595
like i did it right i’m doing this thing that
586
00:43:19,595 –> 00:43:23,235
i’ve been practicing the other thing equally important
587
00:43:23,235 –> 00:43:29,195
is and you mentioned this the community the friendships that form right so i
588
00:43:29,195 –> 00:43:33,815
mean we’ve definitely had like we’ve definitely had kids who are like nine years
589
00:43:33,815 –> 00:43:41,775
old who excel on their instrument and they could certainly play with the 15 year olds but socially.
590
00:43:42,435 –> 00:43:49,475
Is that a good fit and i don’t believe it is right and i think that’s important
591
00:43:49,475 –> 00:43:53,895
to consider when when you look at that benefit of them forming friendships yeah
592
00:43:53,895 –> 00:43:56,935
it means a lot that you spend so much time on this,
593
00:43:57,035 –> 00:43:59,915
I think. I think this is really good takeaway.
594
00:44:00,535 –> 00:44:05,555
And again, you said you’re working with large numbers, but to look at skill
595
00:44:05,555 –> 00:44:09,915
level, personality, not so much personality, but social, you know,
596
00:44:09,935 –> 00:44:13,915
age levels, that means a lot in how you’re curating these groups.
597
00:44:14,375 –> 00:44:19,995
I wonder about too, and I don’t know if you think about this or have examples of,
598
00:44:20,055 –> 00:44:23,975
you know, know the benefit of having someone maybe at
599
00:44:23,975 –> 00:44:27,755
a lower skill level playing with students a
600
00:44:27,755 –> 00:44:33,875
little bit above where they are at i mean you want your older kids to be challenged
601
00:44:33,875 –> 00:44:40,775
and you know to get the most out of their experience you know but i think that
602
00:44:40,775 –> 00:44:44,795
that other student can learn a lot from From playing up,
603
00:44:44,955 –> 00:44:47,375
if you will, right? Oh, for sure. Into a group.
604
00:44:47,775 –> 00:44:51,855
And you’ve got great kids that…
605
00:44:52,905 –> 00:44:57,825
I think that you can teach them or help them to lift others up, right?
606
00:44:58,605 –> 00:45:03,405
100%. But yeah, and you’re going to have enough of those skill level variances
607
00:45:03,405 –> 00:45:06,125
within the same age groups anyway.
608
00:45:06,665 –> 00:45:11,385
Yeah. You know, you’re going to have enough 14-year-olds who,
609
00:45:11,465 –> 00:45:14,285
you know, work hard to get it done.
610
00:45:14,345 –> 00:45:17,925
And then another 14-year-old who it comes easy and, you know,
611
00:45:17,965 –> 00:45:20,065
they’re like, they learn the song in one week.
612
00:45:20,065 –> 00:45:23,925
You’re going to have enough of those, I think, skill level variances within
613
00:45:23,925 –> 00:45:34,045
the age groups that you don’t have to necessarily worry about putting an 8-year-old
614
00:45:34,045 –> 00:45:36,865
with a 13-year-old or something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
615
00:45:37,305 –> 00:45:42,125
But I think my takeaway is I don’t need to worry about I should worry less about
616
00:45:42,125 –> 00:45:47,905
putting all of my best 14 year olds in the same group. Yeah. Right.
617
00:45:48,545 –> 00:45:54,445
Because. Yeah. And that’s like, now we’re getting a whole other category of
618
00:45:54,445 –> 00:45:55,965
like those students that excel.
619
00:45:56,205 –> 00:45:59,265
So maybe that’s not where we go right now. Because that’s, again,
620
00:45:59,345 –> 00:46:03,805
that’s like if you’re coming from that place of, I want to start a rock band program.
621
00:46:04,585 –> 00:46:09,185
Yeah, those are problems that you hope to face one day. Yes.
622
00:46:09,245 –> 00:46:12,385
But let’s not focus on those until we get there. Yeah.
623
00:46:12,865 –> 00:46:19,705
And focus on fostering the creativity and the community of these groups. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
624
00:46:20,830 –> 00:46:25,010
All right. Other questions or did we do it? I think we did it.
625
00:46:25,050 –> 00:46:32,550
And I have to very honestly say I have a much better understanding of how you do this.
626
00:46:32,610 –> 00:46:35,870
And, you know, if I were to open my rock school for dummies,
627
00:46:35,970 –> 00:46:40,330
like I like I can see the steps it takes to get there.
628
00:46:40,830 –> 00:46:45,430
Yeah. Hopefully this helps listeners. I mean, that’s you gave some really great advice.
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We’re going to publish the book.
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00:46:49,870 –> 00:46:54,330
Rock School for Dummies is going to be a very, very narrow audience of people who will buy it.
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But no, I will put together like kind of a quick guide that our listeners can download.
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00:47:00,390 –> 00:47:06,030
And I, again, I feel strongly that any student or sorry, any studio,
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regardless of like how, how you teach or what instruments you teach or like,
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I see benefits in, in
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like putting the students together to play
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together so and i think any student studio could
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adapt these strategies and make
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00:47:23,910 –> 00:47:26,930
it work for them yep like you said for for
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00:47:26,930 –> 00:47:33,970
wind instruments or or other string players too yes totally yeah so we’re good
640
00:47:33,970 –> 00:47:40,190
we did it yeah good work all right well so that was that was interesting to
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be the be the one like being asked the questions I loved it.
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00:47:45,950 –> 00:47:52,590
Again, I will put together, I’ll put together a downloadable guide on how to
643
00:47:52,590 –> 00:47:54,990
start a rock band program in your studio.
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And you’ll be able to find that at rockschoolproprietor.com.
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00:47:59,230 –> 00:48:04,350
And we’re going to wrap this episode up. Mandy, thanks for being the host today.
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00:48:04,750 –> 00:48:08,750
Thanks for playing along. That was good. Yeah. Awesome. All right.
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We’ll see you next time. See you then.
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00:48:11,670 –> 00:48:15,770
If you have topic suggestions or questions, please, please contact us,
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info at rockschoolproprietor.com.
650
00:48:18,310 –> 00:48:22,730
I’d love to answer those questions. We’d love to consider your suggestions for the show.
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Show notes and transcripts for this and all episodes can be found at rockschoolproprietor.com.
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Music.
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You’ll also be able to find that downloadable guide on how to start a rock band program there.
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I’m at rock.school.proprietor on Instagram. If you’d like to connect with me
655
00:48:38,750 –> 00:48:41,890
there, you can find me on LinkedIn as John Kozicki.
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We hope you gained insight from this show. And if you did, we count that as
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a win. All we ask in return is that you pay it forward.
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Music.
