In this episode John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) discuss why being selective about students and families helps you build the studio culture you want. They share real examples and practical strategies for setting expectations, protecting staff time, and aligning families with your lesson studio philosophy.
Key takeaways include:
- Choosing the right students is crucial for studio culture.
- Building community among families enhances the studio experience.
- Clear communication of policies helps set expectations.
- Parents’ expectations for practice should align with studio philosophy.
- Creating a positive environment for instructors is essential.
- Setting boundaries is necessary for studio management.
- Understanding family dynamics can aid in student selection.
- Regular feedback from families can improve studio offerings.
- A strong community attracts like-minded families.
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Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:02.309)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor Podcast. My name is John Kozicki.
Mandy York (00:06.794)
and I’m Mandi York.
John Kozicki (00:08.691)
Hey Mandy, we’re in back to school time. How are you?
Mandy York (00:11.47)
crazy time. It’s good. I’m doing great. How about you? First week back for your kids, right? Yeah.
John Kozicki (00:17.743)
It’s been wild, but good. We’re leveling out, finding that new routine as I’m sure most studio owners and instructors are finding. So I wanted to share a quick story with you today, which will sort of set up our conversation. So.
Maybe about a month ago, you know, we’re getting ready for these fall classes and fall lessons and things like that and promote the classes, get those new registrations in. And about a month ago, I registered a student for for one of our classes and new family don’t know the family. Seems super cool, super excited.
Before we even finalized the registration in the emails back and forth, the parent said, hey, I think my child is going to absolutely love these classes. And then said, hey, do you think they could be longer? The class times could be longer. And I was flattered by that. But at the same time, I thought, no, we really, and I explained, we can’t make them longer.
It’s not just as simple as like, sure, we’ll extend the class. We’ve got other classes booked after it. Plus.
Mandy York (01:40.653)
Yeah.
Is this, so this is a group class, not a private lesson. sure.
John Kozicki (01:46.693)
Yeah, yeah, sorry, I should have explained that. Yes, group class. So said, Yeah, sorry, can’t make it a group class. But thanks for the feedback. We’ll, you know, definitely store that away for for future if we hear from other people. So get the registration done. And then about a week following, I got another email from the parent asking if there are any other days available from
the class time that we had already registered because there’s a possible conflict with another activity. But if there’s not another time, well then that’s fine. The parents said we can go on the wait list for this other activity. And I did my due diligence. I looked like, we have any other options? None of those options worked. So unfortunately, couldn’t make it happen.
Then about a week and a half prior to the actual start of the class, I get another request from the parent asking for the instructor’s phone number in case they run into any traffic or they can’t get to the class in time or they’re going to be a couple minutes late.
Mandy York (03:10.99)
Okay.
John Kozicki (03:12.774)
wanted to have the instructor’s phone number to contact them directly. And I didn’t give it, right? was like between us, it’s like, no, there’s no way I’m gonna give you my instructor’s phone number. Yeah, but replied with, know, if that does happen, just call us, we’ll get that note to the instructor so that the instructor knows, no big deal.
Mandy York (03:24.321)
Yeah
I think that’s a typical policy. Yeah.
John Kozicki (03:41.981)
I didn’t hear anything back on that email reply. And then about five days prior to the start of the class, my admin said that that parent requested to drop the kid from the class. So they never even started. Never even started the class, went from being super excited and asking for a longer class to…
Mandy York (03:59.663)
Okay. Yes.
John Kozicki (04:09.734)
right, just like dropping before even starting. And, you know, I don’t know what else transpired, right? I have no idea what else transpired on their end. But my assessment in speaking with with my admin, I was like, well, it’s probably better off. We’re probably you know, like we spent a lot of time with this parent. And they haven’t even started the class. So I’m going to count that as like
Mandy York (04:17.665)
yeah, we don’t know the story, sure.
John Kozicki (04:39.162)
Maybe we dodged a bullet there. I don’t know, you know? So that’s all to say. What I thought we’d talk about today is that type of thing. Like, how do know, how do you choose the right students and the right families for your studio?
Mandy York (04:41.304)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mandy York (04:58.446)
Right, this is an important part of building the culture of your studio. Yeah.
John Kozicki (05:03.61)
Yeah, and in your world, I mean, obviously, we’re dealing with different scenarios, you being in the early childhood world, know, babies, toddlers, caregiver and child classes, I’m dealing with it, kids are a little bit older in school, different schedules. So how does this? How do you figure out which students are in families are best?
Mandy York (05:26.486)
Yeah, I mean, I’ve had this kind of thing happen a lot in my studio.
Well, quickly, because I want to write this down before we move on in our conversation. Did this family come in for a walkthrough?
John Kozicki (05:46.524)
They did not. No.
Mandy York (05:47.843)
They did not. Okay. Got it. I think that might be important. Anyway, I am a very, I know you do such a great job with like interviewing families and touring them, giving them tours through your space. I’m a pretty hands off. Like when it comes to registration, I love like the self-serve model where I put everything up on the website, lots of details on this website.
John Kozicki (05:52.498)
Okay.
John Kozicki (06:11.133)
Yeah.
Mandy York (06:16.834)
all of our policies, and then families register. My goal is to give them as much information upfront, lots of classroom pictures so they can visualize what this experience is going to be for them. And then once they are registered for these classes, because I mean, I’m doing this every 10 weeks because I’m turning over semester to semester. So I throw it up all on the website, classes fill up.
Once they are filled, I send out more detailed kind of welcome email and details. I do a lot of parent education that first class, especially with what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, what to expect in this next, you know, 10 weeks of classes, that kind of thing. If, if I get a lot of back and forth about, well, what if, what if I can’t come to all the classes?
Cause for me, a family has to purchase the 10 week class. It’s, I mean, it’s part of my licensing agreement that I present this material over like nine to 12 weeks, I think, because that’s what is, developmentally appropriate. That’s how they’re going to get the most out of this curriculum. This there’s, you know, research and reasoning behind it. I don’t do drop in classes and I’m also trying to build community. So that’s one way that I do, right? I say,
John Kozicki (07:16.424)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (07:28.178)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (07:43.153)
Yes.
Mandy York (07:46.231)
No, it’s not just an open door policy. We’re creating a class, and we’re all going to meet together at the same time for 10 weeks. We’re going to get to know each other, and you’re going to get to fully experience this curriculum. So if I have parents that say, well, what if I can’t come to all of them? Could I just buy the music? Or could I just buy five weeks of classes? I do have to kind of.
John Kozicki (08:11.803)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (08:14.55)
you know, I just have the boundary and the line like, no, we can’t do that. Here’s why. But in December, we do a three week mini session. Maybe that’s something you’d be interested in or, you know, we have a couple other options that maybe would work for these families. But because that’s an important part of my studio culture, those communities and how we how we set the semesters, I just have to draw that boundary, let them know how it is.
John Kozicki (08:19.985)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (08:42.503)
And that speaks to the why. Because I did want to talk about why. Why is it so important, at least to me, why do I think it’s so important that we do identify the right studios and family, or the right students and families for our studios? And you nailed it. I agree with you 100%, building community, right? We want to create a community of like-minded families because…
Mandy York (08:45.582)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (09:10.295)
when we propagate our studios with like-minded people, that’s going to attract more of those people. And at the core, mean, I think that like-mindedness also starts with us as the studio owners, right? Like, what are we all about? That translates into what our studio is all about and the type of community that we want to create. So yes, I agree, 100 % community.
Mandy York (09:37.28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (09:39.943)
Also on my list. And this is this I think speaks to the story that I just shared. I sort of feel that if
If a family becomes challenging or straight up a headache for my administrative team, well, that’s a problem because one,
I, that’s not nice, right? It’s not nice. I’ve had some like instances where people were down late, downright not nice to members of my admin team. And I had to step in and say like, look, you can’t do that. You know, you can’t, you can’t talk to someone like that. but we want to create a nice environment for, for our team to work in. Right. Do you, now I know you, you have an admin.
Mandy York (10:13.838)
Yeah.
Mandy York (10:26.85)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (10:40.86)
How do you feel about that? mean, like, does your admin ever comment about issues like that?
Mandy York (10:48.942)
Yeah, I mean, we have, I really can’t think of any instance off the top of my head where anyone has been like flat out rude. You know, we’ve been lucky in that way, but she will, she will, I mean, often share a story with me about, so and so wanted to do this. And then they change their mind and they want it. They do come up, it comes up and I’m very happy to defer all of that back and forth communication to her. She’s super helpful and she’s really good at it.
John Kozicki (10:58.621)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (11:10.459)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (11:16.904)
Yeah.
Mandy York (11:19.526)
but if it were a problem, sure. I would have to step in and it would be like, okay, I don’t think this is working. And if you’re admin, if you have an admin that’s spending all that time kind of negotiating or going back and forth, or we’ve had instances where like we hold a spot. Okay, we’ll hold this until you figure out what’s, what’s happening. Well, you’re spending time. Resources. You’re paying an admin to go back and forth about this.
John Kozicki (11:41.096)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (11:47.843)
And then maybe you’re losing out on a sale because you’re holding a spot, right? So you have to, I’m all about being flexible and helpful. And especially with a long time family, Hey, I’m going to hold this spot. you figure out when baseball practices are, you know what I mean? But if it, if it’s happening too much, or if it’s always falling apart, you have to consider that when you are,
John Kozicki (11:51.836)
Right. Yeah.
Mandy York (12:16.46)
Negotiating, I keep using that word, negotiating with a client.
John Kozicki (12:21.147)
Yeah, and I think that goes, mentioned if you are spending that much time and you know, problems come up. This is not like one off instances. This is when we’re talking about people who maybe consistently are like, I have to deal with this person on this thing again, you know, that goes back to that, that like mindedness, right? If you’re spending all that time with that person, you can’t spend it on
Mandy York (12:41.533)
Yeah, sure.
John Kozicki (12:51.365)
the other folks in your studio, right? You can’t spend it on creating that community and finding, or you mentioned you could lose a sale. Well, yeah, you could lose a sale to another person who is of that like-minded community, you know, who you may probably would rather have. Okay, admin team. Now, instructors, I think this is really important.
I want my instructors to have students that they are happy with. Now there’s leeway, there’s give and take. We register these students, we don’t always know what kind of students they’re going to be, but over time we will see like, okay, is this the type of student that my instructors are happy to work with? Or is it the type of student where my instructor’s frustrated because they feel like
I don’t know, at extremes, like the kid comes in and maybe is so rambunctious and like hard to deal with and it’s not really even about music anymore. It’s just like about babysitting. Definitely have heard that one. But again, creating a good environment for my instructors to work in means trying to find the students that are gonna be right, the right fit for how they teach and what we do at the studio.
Mandy York (14:15.096)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think about my other clients too. If I have, if I have, some families with like super spotty attendance or some that maybe don’t follow all the policies and I’m always having to remind them like that really affects that community, you know, that, that meets every week. So the students in that group get a lot, get a much different.
John Kozicki (14:32.901)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (14:45.494)
experience than the students that meet the hour before or the day after, right? They’re not just affecting your teacher, they’re affecting the other students in the group that they’re in. You want everyone to have a good experience.
John Kozicki (14:49.819)
Yeah. Yes.
John Kozicki (14:56.369)
Yes, yeah, that’s a great point. The way that I see that in my studio and in a similar way is, and I mentioned this before, but like our band program is what we do best, but we still have students who come in just for private lessons. And I would say almost without fail, my instructors feel that…
the students that they have, their private lesson students that are also in our band program are the students that they like to work with the most because they’re goal oriented, they have to be responsible for staying on top of what they’re supposed to prepare for rehearsals every week. So just generally they are happier with those students compared to some of the private lesson students who they don’t have those same
responsibilities necessarily in private lessons, it can sometimes just be this revolving door of go to lesson, go home, maybe work on stuff, maybe not come back to a lesson, maybe we’re repeating stuff, maybe we’re making some progress. So yeah, I see that similar thing going back to like that translating into how those kids.
Mandy York (16:10.435)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (16:19.672)
work both in private lessons, but also work in in their groups in their bands. Yeah. Okay. It all comes back to the community. I mean, every one of those points, it was about like, what is that environment that we want to create in our studios? Whether that’s for the families or for our employees? But yeah, definitely comes back to the community. Now.
Mandy York (16:25.368)
Yep, for sure.
Mandy York (16:31.117)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (16:50.458)
The hard question for you, Mandy, how do you do that? How? How do you find the right students? How do you make sure you’re getting the right families in your studio? And again, I think tougher for you because you’d already mentioned this, you’re hands off when it comes to registration. So it’s almost like you have to get them in the door first and then figure out, is this right? Is it not right?
Mandy York (16:52.739)
Yeah.
Mandy York (17:07.682)
I can’t.
Mandy York (17:17.88)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (17:17.902)
You know, can we work with this? Are they moldable? Yeah.
Mandy York (17:20.918)
Mm-hmm. You know, I feel
I do a lot of outreach in the community and that’s where I pick up new families the most. Word of mouth and then I go out and I do like demonstration classes. So I think probably if I get like a brand new family, they maybe have come to one of my drop-in classes, like at an offsite event. And so it’s really important that I’m representing my values and the community that
John Kozicki (17:31.728)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (17:54.091)
I foster when I’m out there. For example, you know, especially during the summer, I do a bunch of library classes throughout the area and I introduce myself and what I do and so I have a music together studio and this is how it works and I love to come to the library though and meet new friends and have, you know, kind of a music time party because those classes do tend to be bigger and I let them know.
John Kozicki (17:56.57)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (18:22.854)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (18:23.884)
Like this is like the party experience. When you come to one of our regular classes, this is what it looks like, you know, but they, I give them a little bit of parent education throughout that class. and, so I, I, I think that’s something that I do. You’ve had, yeah, this is how, this is a hard question. That’s probably a big thing that I do.
John Kozicki (18:29.307)
Right.
John Kozicki (18:46.04)
It is. Well, what’s interesting in you saying that you mentioned that you are more hands off when it comes to the registration in recruiting families. But I’d argue that you are you’re just doing it in a different way. You’re being hands on, but in a different way. You’re you’re giving that sample at the library class. And so you’re allowing people to experience it first and then
they make that decision. Is this the right fit for us? Is this the right class? So they’re getting a sample first, whereas most of the time in my situation, now I’m happy to do tours and welcome people in and show them around, but oftentimes if this is a phone process or an email process, they’re not necessarily getting that sample, but I have things that I do.
to try and figure out if this is a good fit and preferably when it’s on the phone, if I’m feeling like it’s not a good fit, I try and give them an out. I try and explain to them in a gentle way why I think this might not be the best fit. So for instance, I ask a lot of questions about expectations.
Mandy York (19:59.439)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (20:14.808)
that they might have from lessons. So that I can get a sense of what the families or the students are interested in. Are the families looking for the experience that I offer, which is geared toward performing and having fun with music? Or are they looking for an experience that’s
more classical approach. Traditional, like the piano lessons I had as a kid. And if they’re looking for that, I certainly want to let them know, well, that’s not really what we do. Because I don’t want them thinking they’re getting something and then me delivering something else. So
Mandy York (20:54.446)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (21:11.04)
Exactly, yeah.
John Kozicki (21:14.308)
Yeah, so that would be one thing. Ask a lot of questions. Simple ways to do that. What kind of music does your kid listen to? What do they want to be able to play? What as the parent of this child, what are you hoping to find for them in music lessons? What do you want them to get out of this? So I think those open-ended questions that I like to ask
provide a lot of insight into what their expectations are. So that way then I can say, are these expectations realistic? Can I deliver on these? Or are they really looking for something else? And maybe I should tell them, like, you’re kind of looking for something else.
Mandy York (22:02.486)
Mm-hmm. I think you do such a great job with that. You’ve really perfected like your interview questions for your families. I love that. And I think that probably not all of them know what they’re expecting, right? They don’t all. So this is you making them think about these questions. And then you’ve already had the conversation. When they come in, they’re not going to be blindsided.
John Kozicki (22:17.154)
Exactly.
John Kozicki (22:28.995)
Right. Another question, you could ask questions about practice and parent expectations for practice. You know, we’ve had extensive conversations about that. I’m like, as an aside, I’m like, I’m almost to the point now where I feel like, can we just use a different term?
Mandy York (22:30.094)
Sounds good.
Mandy York (22:40.519)
Yes. Yeah.
John Kozicki (22:52.901)
Can we just not use the word practice? Because it can be interpreted in so many different ways and applied in so many different ways. It’s like, I just want to be like, do you play? Do you play music during the week? you like, you know what mean? I don’t know. I don’t have the answer. But, perfect example, okay. So was having a conversation with my wife earlier this week, because my son started middle school and, and,
Mandy York (22:53.646)
you
Mandy York (23:03.112)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (23:20.965)
Sheep, my wife said like, well, the the letter we just got from the instructor says that they have to practice 30 minutes every day. And I was like, he well, he started he doesn’t have an instrument yet. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But 30 minutes a day. And I’m just I felt bad because I was I was about to unload. I was like, look.
Mandy York (23:32.246)
Is he in band? Band or, or, okay, okay. this is exciting. 30 minutes a day.
Mandy York (23:47.34)
write a letter john right now
John Kozicki (23:48.422)
If this kid needs to practice 30 minutes a day, okay. But if he doesn’t, why should he log the time, right? I don’t know. But anyway, I digress. Yeah, you could ask questions about practice expectations. And far be it from me to be the dictator of what like practices across the board. I mean, this is just for my studio, but any instructor who’s like, yes,
we really need this kid to play or air quotes practice at least 10 minutes a day. Okay, if that’s the expectation in the studio, then we need to make sure that the parent is on board with that because that can be such a rift, right? Based on like what parent expectations are, student expectations are, instructor expectations are. So in the interest of finding that fit, have that conversation.
early. So, all right, I’m off my soapbox on that one. Sorry.
Mandy York (24:48.366)
Yeah, it’s great. Yes. No, I get it. Yeah. I think, going back to your scenario at the beginning, right?
John Kozicki (25:03.386)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (25:05.41)
We’re, you know, we can’t say that this family would not have been a good fit for your studio. We can’t. You don’t know the situation. and like we said, we’re in back to school mode right now. I myself, I’ve had girls and you know, sports tryouts, are they going to make it? Are they not? Okay. They do make it. That’s changed our whole schedule. We need to rearrange this and that. Right. but the bottom line is like, it’s, it’s your studio.
John Kozicki (25:10.179)
Right, we don’t know.
Mandy York (25:35.875)
You, you set the policies. No, we don’t give out instructor phone numbers, right? this is the, this is when classes meet. from in my studio, you know, I have a makeup policy. If you miss a class, this is how we don’t guarantee your makeup. But if you can check this calendar, if there is room for you, lay it all out there. and if it’s taking up too much, too much of your time resources, then
John Kozicki (25:41.634)
Mm-hmm, right.
Mandy York (26:06.284)
You have to be able to say, I think, you know, I’m sorry, this isn’t working out. Something I might say is I’m going to add you to our email list. So when the next semester opens up, you’ll get an email on that first day and hopefully there will be plenty of choices for you at that time and you can check your schedule or maybe after things settle down, you know, fall is really busy for you. We can revisit in the winter, something like that. But
John Kozicki (26:34.501)
Mm hmm. Yeah, 100%. And that’s that’s the other one. The how I think is like what you said the policies and
Mandy York (26:37.368)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (26:44.675)
You know, I kind of, we tuck that one in at the end, but that’s really, it’s a big one because that’s, those are those clear expectations. This is how we do things. And.
It’s non-negotiable. You know what I mean? It’s like this is how we have to do it so that things run properly. Yeah, and yeah.
Mandy York (27:02.434)
Yeah.
Mandy York (27:07.564)
Mm-hmm. And that’s okay. That is okay. I know like it’s harder for some studio owners than others. I think it’s worth mentioning because I know I’ve had, I’ve had colleagues that will say, how many times should I keep reaching out? Like, I think you’re done, you know, just, you know, don’t put yourself through that. It’s okay to set the boundary and that, and some of, some people have a harder time doing that.
John Kozicki (27:17.923)
I agree.
John Kozicki (27:22.809)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (27:34.115)
Yeah, but yes, definitely present those policies in the front end because that’s going to help you figure out is this going to be okay with this person and if they are giving pushback even before they start that might be a problem. So, my gosh, think it was just yesterday. I saw in one of the many Facebook groups someone I didn’t read the whole thing but because I got the gist of it and I was like, my gosh.
but someone shared that they were changing their policies and a parent replied with a rewrite of those changed policies. How about this?
Mandy York (28:16.354)
Yeah, I think it’s very fascinating how many times that happens. Yeah. I mean, like with your class time, I’ve had, I’ve had people suggest things a lot and I try to, you know, imagine that they have the very best of intentions and just hold my boundary and my position as studio owner. Thank you. But.
John Kozicki (28:20.952)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (28:36.547)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (28:44.514)
Yeah, and you can give them the benefit of the doubt. you know, I mean, we all do it, we all think like, well, what if we just solve the problem this way, not really knowing everything else that’s involved underneath, right, everything else that’s related. So it we can give them the benefit of the doubt that they just don’t know everything else that’s involved. So it’s not as simple as just like, sure, change the policy, you know.
Mandy York (28:57.845)
Yeah. yeah.
Mandy York (29:10.67)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (29:12.878)
But yeah, if I, right, yeah, if I were to put like three quick bullet points on how to identify the right students and families, I would say number one, ask questions about what their expectations are about the experience. You know, like the style of the lessons, the teaching style, the…
Mandy York (29:13.806)
That’s a good one.
John Kozicki (29:40.984)
like philosophy of the studio, ask those questions. Number two, address the practice thing because it is what it is. Some parents place a lot of expectations on that, others place zero expectations on it, right? So, and that has to align with who you are as an instructor and what your studio is about. And number three, the policies, make them clear, make sure you address them, make sure there’s no questions or.
or issues.
Mandy York (30:11.95)
for sure. Yep, I think that’s a great summary.
John Kozicki (30:15.806)
easier said than done. I get it. I get it. But grand scheme of things. Again, it goes back to that culture and that community and what you want to, what you want to build in your studio.
Mandy York (30:18.424)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (30:30.84)
Yeah. Well, I think that’s going to tie everything up in a nice little bow. So, yeah. Thanks, Mandy.
Mandy York (30:31.192)
For sure.
Mandy York (30:37.698)
I like it.
Cool, yeah, good story. I think this is great, because we have talked a lot about building community and how to find the right students, but maybe not quite at this angle. This was good to bring up. Cool. Thanks, John.
John Kozicki (30:52.325)
All right, well, we’ll wrap it up and we’ll see you next time. Thanks.
Mandy York (30:57.273)
See you later.
