In this engaging episode of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast, host John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) sits down with Mike McKinstry, the charismatic host of The Bassquatch Hunter: Fish Out of Water on the Discovery Channel. Mike shares his unique journey of transforming his niche hobby of kayak fishing into a popular television show with millions of viewers.
In this episode:
- How Mike began attracting sponsors with only 35 subscribers and seven videos on his YouTube channel
- Keys to finding work/life balance; staying motivated and accountable to things we have to do as business owners and taking advantage of the benefits
- How creating new opportunities for your business and those who work for you can be a powerful metric to measure growth
- How diversifying to having options to shift focus can promote motivation and stave off burnout.
The discussion delves into vital aspects of creating a successful lifestyle business, such as work ethic, authenticity, and seizing opportunities. Whether you’re a music instructor, a budding entrepreneur, or just looking for inspiration, tune in to discover how passion and dedication can turn dreams into reality.
Season 3 of Bassquatch Hunter: Fish Out of Water premiers July 5, 2025 on Discovery.
Mike’s Links:
Your ratings and reviews on Apple Podcast and Spotify are always appreciated!
Join our private Facebook group, “Performance-Based Music Programs and Rock Schools,” a community for like-minded professionals to connect and share insights.
Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:01.066)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor podcast. My name’s John Kozicki and my guest today is the host of Basquatch Hunter on the Discovery Channel, creator of the Basquatch Hunter YouTube channel. He’s nominated, he’s been nominated for five Michigan Emmy Awards and has a whole slew of other awards related to his shows. Mike McKinstry, how are you?
Mike McKinstry (00:27.263)
I’m doing great man, how you doing?
John Kozicki (00:28.972)
I’m doing well. I’m doing well. So as you and I were talking earlier, my audience for this podcast, primarily music instructors and music school owners. So I’m sure they all might be wondering right now why on a podcast about running a music lesson business, am I talking to a bass fisherman?
Mike McKinstry (00:45.887)
You
Mike McKinstry (00:50.793)
I mean, that’s how we met though. It is how we met. That’s fishing with the music. Yeah.
John Kozicki (00:53.454)
Yeah, we’ve known each other, right? Yeah, we’ve known each other for decades at this point. And yeah, actually, my very first, my very first job teaching, we worked together, you were the counter guy, right? And the kind of jack of all trades at the music store there.
Mike McKinstry (01:09.79)
Yep.
Mike McKinstry (01:13.715)
Yep, that was my first job in high school as well, like besides pizzerias, like small stuff under the table when I was a teenager. So yeah.
John Kozicki (01:16.993)
Right.
John Kozicki (01:21.228)
Yeah, yeah. So I’m to answer that question. Like, why? Why am I talking to not only a bass? Yeah, not only a bass fisherman, but a like you exclusively fish in a kayak too. Right. And and so very, very small niche. But what you’ve done is you’ve created a lifestyle business. You’ve taken your passion for.
Mike McKinstry (01:27.359)
And why am I talking to a music instructor?
Mike McKinstry (01:37.886)
Yep.
John Kozicki (01:50.851)
what was once a hobby and you’ve turned it into a business and you’ve built a successful brand with a television show on the Discovery Channel and a YouTube channel and merch and all sorts of things. So what I wanted to get into today is that parallel between what we do as music lesson studio owners running a lifestyle business and what you’re doing.
in your life running this, a similar kind of business in that it’s a lifestyle business. So yeah, right. Maybe real quick, how did you get started doing this? How did you turn this passion into a business?
Mike McKinstry (02:23.391)
Yeah, there’s a lot more in common than it sounds like for sure.
Mike McKinstry (02:39.099)
Well, so I always have a hard time making this a short answer because there’s like a million avenues to go down or that I had to go down, I guess to say. There’s no book on how to do any of stuff. So it was a lot of like, you know, I call it flatland wandering where I wasn’t really moving up or down. I was just wandering trying to find the next spot.
But I’ve always been a firm believer on creating a job instead of finding a job. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs and I just I saw that path where working for somebody else let someone else control your time and time is the only thing we invest. can’t get back. So I’m a firm believer in creating the job you want instead of finding the job that you have to have kind of thing. So.
John Kozicki (03:17.592)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (03:19.519)
When I started this, it was funny how it started. I’ve never done YouTube. I had like three cover songs that I made on YouTube. I recorded playing acoustic guitar like 20 years ago or 15 years ago. I was and never did anything else. And I started fishing a lot. I got into kayak fishing just this whole other story. I just got into kayaks instead of my bass boat. I sold the boat, got a kayak. And I realized that nobody was making videos about kayak fishing. And
And one of the things that I’ve learned in my history of marketing was if you want to try to do something different, you got to do something different. You know what mean? Like if you want to do something different in your life, you got to do something that nobody else is doing in their life or try to find a unique path. So I was looking through YouTube, Facebook, everywhere on social media. And I was like, man, nobody’s promoting the sport of fishing the way I want to promote it. I’m fishing out of a kayak. I’m going to these smaller areas. I’m going to these places that boats can’t go. And I just want to share that adventure with people. Like, how do I do that?
So I bought some knockoff GoPros, some cheap $20 little action camera, if you can call it that, on Amazon. And I started just filming. And my first three or four videos are still on my YouTube channel today. I purposely will never delete them. They’re terrible. They’re embarrassing to watch.
John Kozicki (04:21.954)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (04:28.877)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (04:31.615)
They’re like looking back at him. I’m just like, man, that was me that did the like, that’s ridiculous. But I just I didn’t know how to video edit. I didn’t know how to make a YouTube channel. I didn’t know how to film. didn’t I didn’t know how to do any of this stuff. I mean, I went to film school in 98 to 99 ish around there. I was working with VHS tapes, you know, like I didn’t know digital. I didn’t know the medium. didn’t know computers. So when I started out, I just wanted to share like that this exists. Like kayak fishing was cool. It existed and people didn’t believe me and I wanted to share it.
John Kozicki (04:51.373)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (05:01.763)
and I started doing YouTube and I made, I don’t know, think I had seven, you know, I did have seven videos. I remember this specifically because I had a phone call that changed my entire life, but seven videos and 32 subscribers. And there were just videos of me out fishing, having fun. And I started reaching out to brands and companies and just going, Hey,
I’m going to do this, this, and all these big things. I just shared my dreams. And I was so passionate. I was so excited. And these brands were like, OK, yeah, we’re on board. So what do your viewers look like? And I was like, well, I got seven videos, got like 32 subscribers, and that’s where the calls always stopped. People were like, wait, hold on. What? Like, you’re talking up here, but you’re down here. I’m like, no, no, no, but trust me, which is like, you know.
John Kozicki (05:32.863)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (05:41.919)
Now I understand how comical that was back then, but I’m like, no, no, no, watch. And everyone says that. But what was different with me is that I have the ambition, the drive, the energy. And I was like, I’m not giving up. I’m a firm believer in jumping. And if you don’t fly, then you better learn to climb. And I definitely had to climb. So I started making videos. And then sure enough, these brands started coming back to me further down the road and going, hey, like.
Can we just pay you to use our stuff? You’re already using it. Like just keep on using it in your videos and we’ll just pay you. And I was like, wait a minute, what? You’re going to pay me to do this? And then I started making 500 bucks a month on YouTube, which isn’t much at all. But at the time, taking a risk and doing something that I didn’t feel like was even work and being able to make $500 a month doing it, I quit my job, my 13 year career of marketing. I quit.
Like that was it. I was like, this is my calling. Like if I can make 500 a month, I can make 5,000 a month. I just got to figure out the gap. So I kept on pushing it and doing it.
John Kozicki (06:31.66)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (06:38.016)
Right, right.
Mike McKinstry (06:40.007)
And then that’s how it got started. And then from there, it went to streaming platforms and then cable and then Discovery Channel. And then it just kept on growing because I still today have that same belief where if you jump and don’t fly, it’s OK. I don’t give up. I just learn to climb back up and just, you know, just I find out how to do it. And that’s how it’s so similar. Like we were talking earlier about, you know, anything in the arts, music, acting, anything is there’s no book on how to do it. We’re all unique. We all have our own paths and, you know,
John Kozicki (07:07.2)
Right, right.
Mike McKinstry (07:08.793)
Some of these paths are heavily traveled, but you have to make your own footsteps. Like you have to. You can’t. I can’t do what you do or what someone like nobody can do what someone else does to the T or it’s not going to work. It’s not authentic. So starting out was super scary, but it was so exciting at the same time because every time I failed, I was like, OK, how are you like, I’m going to do it like I’m to figure it out. It’s just like.
John Kozicki (07:28.797)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, what are you going to learn from that failure and how do you how do you readjust?
Mike McKinstry (07:31.901)
Yeah, I’m the kid that runs into a wall and then looks at it and goes, all right, where do I have to run through it to get through it? Like, I’m going to keep on running into it. So where’s the soft spot? Like, I’m going to find it and I’m going to keep on running into it. Like, I’m not the kid that stops and he goes, hmm, maybe there’s a wall there I should stop. Like, that’s just not how I’ve been my whole life.
John Kozicki (07:48.256)
Yeah, and you’ve been doing this, you started the YouTube thing with your fishing videos in what, like, it’s been about 10 years, right? Roughly.
Mike McKinstry (07:58.973)
Yeah, this is my 10th year, believe. Yeah, right around there. Yeah.
John Kozicki (08:01.791)
Okay. Okay. So I know and you mentioned this, you mentioned this a minute ago, that you have been doing this for 10 years. And one of your one of your missions is to inspire others to take risks and try new things and pursue a career that makes them happy kind of like exactly like you did. And
at this point with almost a decade behind you. And again, bringing it back to people who will be listening to this podcast that we are in that same boat. We are passionate about music. We are passionate about teaching. We’re passionate about sharing that with other people. But also, like you said, there is no real roadmap, right? There’s no there’s no like how to start a music school for dummies.
You know, like if you want to get into insurance, there’s a clear path. If you want to get into teaching, there’s a clear path for these types of businesses. It’s a little more like let’s wander around and try and figure things out. With your mission of inspiring others to find and pursue a career that makes them happy. What bit of advice wasn’t maybe like one bit of advice?
Mike McKinstry (08:55.112)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (09:22.783)
you would give to someone else who’s either thinking about starting a business or maybe they’re in the early stages of their business.
Mike McKinstry (09:29.971)
Yeah, so I love this question too. And this is kind of the topic I do at high schools a lot. Starting any business that’s not product based is one of the scariest things, I think. It really is. Because if it’s a product based, you just have to learn how to sell a product. When it’s service based, you have to learn how to sell yourself. And that’s where people get really scared. So the biggest piece of advice I give anybody that is doing any business service based, like what we both do, that’s a very similar thing we both have.
John Kozicki (09:34.562)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (09:48.589)
Mmm.
Mike McKinstry (09:59.739)
is not to focus on, and it sounds really weird, but I’ll circle to it, I promise. Don’t focus on your customer, focus on yourself. Do it for you. Do what you want to do. When I make videos to this day, I’ve done it this way since day one, I’ll never change it. I make them for me. I do what I think would be a lot of fun, and what would look cool, and what would be an adventure, and what do I get excited about? It just so happens that people agree with me.
And I actually stole that quote from Rick Rubin, famous music producer, where he had an interview one time where someone asked him, how do you make popular music that everyone likes? He goes, I don’t. I don’t know how I do that. I make music I like, and people just agree with me. And that’s just the same vision I’ve always had is I do my work for myself and what I think is fun and adventurous and exciting. And even if people don’t like the content,
or they don’t relate to it as much, they relate to my passion for it. They relate to the fact that they know it’s what I want. So when you’re starting a business that’s based on you, you have to base it on you. Like, stay authentic, stay true. Like, honestly, I’ve been to your place even, and your place is authentically you. Like, it always was. Like, it’s not like any other music shop you walk into, which it shouldn’t be. And a lot of music shops are very, like, I’m not talking the chains, but like the individual places, they’re very unique places because they reflect the person who started it.
John Kozicki (11:02.294)
I love that.
Mike McKinstry (11:21.567)
And those are the ones that are successful. Those are the ones that are like you walk in there and you feel like you’re in an art gallery all of a sudden. Like everything is very, it’s an outward expression of the person that started it. And that’s what you have to do with your place. You have to do it with your show or with your channel or with your business. You have to make it an outward expression of who you are on the inside and people will react to it. And you’ll be surprised if you think there’s nothing interesting about you, you think there’s nothing unique about you.
John Kozicki (11:21.889)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (11:42.902)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (11:47.389)
put it out there and you’ll be surprised how many people cling to that. And even, even if they’re just in awe that someone can do that, even if they’re in awe of like, wow, this person can really like, they’re putting themselves out there and they’re, you know, they’re doing it. Like I have so many fans that have been with me since day one because they were addicted to watching my journey even because they, weren’t willing to do what I was doing. So they wanted to follow it. And that happens a lot in business. People will go, man, I watched you start your store and now you’re, you know, a big music established music shop in.
John Kozicki (12:06.622)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (12:17.147)
I watched that journey and that’s why I’m attached. I might not be a musician, but I’m attached to your journey. You know what I mean? So I think the short version of everything I just said is a focus on what’s authentic to you. Express that outwardly. Don’t pander to people. Don’t do what you think people want. Do what you want and let people react to that instead.
John Kozicki (12:37.024)
I’m gonna riff on that a little bit because I think you’re 100 % right, but I also wanna translate it a little bit for my listening audience. So you said two things that I’m gonna key in on. One, you talked about the difference between selling a service and selling a product. And I think the trap that so many music instructors fall into is they’re trying to sell.
music lessons like it is a product, right? Come in here for a 30 minute lesson and it’s this much money and you’ll get it this many times a week and blah, blah, blah. It’s very like talking about those really cut and dry features that you would see on a product rather than selling the experience, right? And then the other thing you mentioned was you focused on authenticity. You focused on yourself and
Mike McKinstry (13:25.126)
Absolutely.
John Kozicki (13:35.308)
On this podcast, I’ve talked a lot about finding your why. I’m a big fan of Simon Sinek and that’s all Simon Sinek stuff, but finding your why, finding your purpose. Like, why do you exist? Why does your business exist? What is it that you like bring to the table that is uniquely you? And…
Mike McKinstry (13:57.201)
And what made you hungry to take the journey in the first place? Like that’s that’s the message too.
John Kozicki (14:01.898)
And that is that authenticity. When you’re able to figure out how to express your why and make that part of your marketing, then you are selling that extension of yourself and you’re finding your audience not because they’re looking for music lessons, but because they resonate with how you’re presenting music lessons, how you’re presenting that experience when they come to take music lessons.
Mike McKinstry (14:26.623)
100%.
John Kozicki (14:31.848)
at your studio.
Mike McKinstry (14:33.062)
And you know, when I was a kid, I took guitar lessons and my instructor was a character. I’m sure you know him actually, Joe Napier. like, I loved that guy. So like, I hated that I couldn’t spend time with my friends. My friends were going out riding bikes, having fun. And I’m like, I got guitar lessons. But I get there. I don’t want to leave because I had such an adventure with that guy.
John Kozicki (14:39.73)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mike McKinstry (14:56.699)
I had so much fun just learning Metallica songs and just jamming with that guy. Like it was like my buddy. Like I loved the environment. I loved his little office, his little studio that he had, his room. It was decorated like exactly like my bedroom was, like the posters of like metal bands and stuff. like it was it was the experience is what kept me playing guitar. And it’s what got me into music in general. It was the experience of the people that I got to meet and get to learn from. It wasn’t like the time that it took to do it wasn’t the fun part. Obviously, it was.
John Kozicki (15:10.646)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (15:25.579)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (15:26.257)
It was the experience I had with Joe. mean, that guy was, every day it was, I never knew what I was going to get out of him. So I loved that. It was so relatable and so great. it was someone who’s like, OK, I’m your instructor and here’s your, you know what I mean? It was like, I’m just doing my job selling a thing. It wouldn’t have worked. But he was so passionate about music that I was passionate about being around him. And I think that translated. That whole time was probably one of the things that molded me the most was,
John Kozicki (15:32.64)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (15:55.743)
know, learning how to be passionate about something and stick through it even though it was inconvenient and realizing the rewards over time. You know, I’ve been playing guitar for over 20 years now and…
John Kozicki (16:00.821)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (16:06.683)
It’s taken me a lot of places, like music’s taken me a lot of amazing places. And it was all because I struggled and forced myself to get into it and gave up hanging out with my friends and sacrifice some things. Met a really cool instructor, you know, and a bunch of other people over the years, you know, other guys that, you know, you and I both know from, you know, other music shops that we worked at back then. And, you know, it changed everything. You know, my first sales job was selling guitars, and that’s what broke me out of my shell to be more.
John Kozicki (16:32.245)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (16:34.079)
like outgoing and more salesy and or like conversational with people and that I use that today. So I think you made a very good point to you like off of what I was saying about how the authenticity is so important but also not focusing on and again it sounds weird to say it but like don’t focus on your customer as much as you focus on the service you’re providing them you know.
John Kozicki (16:59.754)
Hmm.
Mike McKinstry (17:00.445)
Don’t focus on getting the money or getting the business. Like if you’re going to business to make money, you’ll never be successful. You have to go to business to be passionate about something you’re doing and then you’ll be successful. The money will come. Like the freedom will come. Like you can attest to this too. You know, when you first start your business, you don’t have freedom. You know, that’s there’s that joke and entrepreneurship where it’s like, you know, I chose to work twice amount of time with no vacation pay, no health insurance with half the money just so I could be happy. You know, and it’s like
And it’s funny when people say that because it’s like, wait a minute, sounds completely backwards. But it’s because that part happens first and then the freedom part happens. the you know, I just had this talk the other day about retirement. And I was like, what do mean retirement? Like, I’m not retiring. This is what I want to do. Like, I don’t want to retire. I don’t ever want to retire from this. Like, I hope I don’t have to, you know. And to me, that’s like a big thing. That’s a powerful thing to be able to say, to be like, I don’t want to quit what I do ever. Like.
John Kozicki (17:47.339)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (17:51.018)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (17:58.993)
I do it for the right reason and I’m so passionate about what I do that every year I’m making this bigger and providing opportunity for more people and just doing more every year because I want this to last forever. Where most people have jobs where they’re like, I don’t want this to last. Like I can’t wait till I’m out of here. I can’t wait till the clock says five o’clock or I can’t wait till my vacation day or the weekend or, know, and when you go into business for yourself, you have a good period where all of that goes away. You don’t have any freedom. You have no clocking out.
John Kozicki (17:59.147)
Right.
Mike McKinstry (18:25.983)
You know, there’s no like, like if I asked you what your hours were, you’d probably be like, I don’t know. Like, what are hours? Like, what are those?
John Kozicki (18:30.633)
Right. Yeah, right. Two things. And we might have to meander to get to both of them. But first one is you’re talking about having fun, how much you love your job and with lifestyle businesses, those businesses that we start because they’re based on passion.
Mike McKinstry (18:47.453)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (18:58.475)
and we start them because we want to have a real balance between work and home life, right? We want to find that nice balance. there are a lot of things that are fun about running a lifestyle business. But there are also things that are not so fun. And I think it can be easy sometimes to get distracted
or allow ourselves to be distracted by the fun things as a means to avoid the not so fun things, right? What are some things that you do to ensure that you’re still treating your business also like a job, you know, because that’s where those lines get blurred a little bit, right? And it’s hard to see. We don’t get to work at nine and clock out at five, right?
So what are some things that you do to ensure that you’re still treating your business like a job and not allowing yourself to be distracted so that you can maintain productivity?
Mike McKinstry (20:10.281)
So that’s a really good question. I fight with this constantly. That’s a problem that don’t think, especially, so if you’re a landscaper, you’re out working all day. So you don’t come home until you’re done. When you have a business where you’re operating from, like pretty much from your house or remotely or like moving around kind of thing.
John Kozicki (20:22.602)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (20:31.871)
It’s really hard to stay on task. It’s really hard to stay motivated It’s really hard not to fall into the like oh I can take the day off So I should like it’s hard. It’s hard to keep yourself on track with everything, but it’s also Tough to turn it off. It’s it’s it’s a weird thing and I and this is a constant I feel like this is like an evolving battle It’s one of those things where once I figure it out. There’s another way I have to figure it out Like it always it’s very fluid I think part of it is
John Kozicki (20:39.922)
Right.
John Kozicki (20:57.834)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (21:00.775)
I make sure that I love what I do still, no matter what. I surround myself with people that I want to hang out with. I surround myself with people I like to work with. If I don’t mend well or mesh well with someone I work with, then I move on from them and bring on someone new. Like, my crew are all friends. So when we travel together, we’re just all on vacation, pretty much, and just doing what we love to do while we’re there. And if it starts feeling like work too much, then we take a breather. And if it feels like we’re not working enough, then we get back to work.
The balance that I found that worked the best for me to stay productive, and my business is unique because I’m not offering a service at a physical place. So I’m never in one place. Yeah, so like I work from my office most of the time. don’t get to, like everyone’s like, you fish for a living. I’m like, do I? Like, when do I do that? Like, I don’t get to fish that. I’ve only been fishing twice this whole season, to be honest with you. Like, I haven’t been out much. I just, I’ve been in my office just.
John Kozicki (21:42.728)
Right, you’re producing a television show. Yeah.
John Kozicki (21:52.746)
Right.
John Kozicki (21:57.605)
huh.
Mike McKinstry (21:59.571)
grinding like crazy. But one of the things that I found to balance a lot is I call it spider marketing. I started spreading out what I do. So if I get kind of drained or worn out or if I have downtime or any if I need a break from one part of my business, found like a spider has eight legs. So visually I have eight different forms that I do. And it’s just a number because of spiders. But there might be sticks. But
Like I started a children’s book series. I do like 20 children’s events a year. I do speeches and readings and stuff at schools. do. I’m a committee member for two different committees for the county and and the tourism bureau now, too. I try to spread out everything I do. I’m a writer for a magazine as well for a fishing magazine. So like I spread out a lot of stuff. So when this feels like it’s too much that I’m still working over here or when this feels like too much, I’m still working over here.
Or if I have downtime for any reason, I’m like, well, I can allocate time to whatever one of these things, and it’s all spread out. So that way, if one leg isn’t working correctly, the other one is. So that’s why I call it spider marketing, where I’m just diversifying my workload. And that keeps me not only on task, but also it keeps my ADD in check, where I’m always focusing on something, and there’s always something going on.
John Kozicki (23:10.055)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (23:20.925)
And it doesn’t get stagnant that way. I’m not a very complacent person. I don’t like sitting still. I don’t like being in one place. I always have to have movement. Whether it’s upward or downward doesn’t matter to me. Just has to be movement. in a service-based business, it’s hard to not make it repetitive. I can’t think of any service, like even house cleaning or anything. It would all become repetitive if you don’t diversify your actions of some sort.
John Kozicki (23:21.087)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (23:48.927)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (23:49.831)
So I think that’s a really important thing for people to remember is you don’t want to get burned out. Like when you make your passion into a or your hobby into a job, a lot of people lose their passion for that hobby or and it ruins it. And there was I’ve done that a few times. I’ve danced with that plenty of times where I’m like, man, I don’t even like fishing anymore. Like it’s just a job to me. Like now it’s too much stress and it’s pressure and I have to I have to perform. And you know, I could.
John Kozicki (24:00.434)
Yes, right.
Mike McKinstry (24:15.207)
be going through a lot of personal things, and then the next day I gotta turn on my energy for the cameras, and I’m like, man, this is just exhausting. So spreading those things out really, really helps me a lot over the years. Going through stuff like a divorce, or going through financial hardships, or a dog passing away. When I go through all those things, I just focus on one of the legs, one of the things, and it just keeps me going. Because if not…
John Kozicki (24:26.452)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (24:40.415)
If you, like let’s say you’re a huge passion about music, so like I wanna teach it and that’s my passion and you go into it with that. You don’t wanna burn yourself out with that and then not only lose the passion, but then you’re gonna lose your drive and ambition and everything’s gonna fall apart. Everything that you started it for is gone and you lose sight of it. It happens to athletes all the time too, where they lose, they enter the business part of it and they lose sight of why they did it in the first place and then their career goes under and they wonder why. And it works the same in our businesses right here. If you lost your passion for music, your business would suffer immediately.
John Kozicki (24:57.96)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (25:09.277)
If I lost my passion for the outdoors and for inspiring people to go chase their dreams, my business would fold within 30 days. Like it would just, that’s what my business is, is the passion. So spreading it out helps a lot. That way you have other things to focus on. But also I have a lot of constant reminders and that’s a lot of the kids that I work with of why I do this. And I think it’s really important for all of us to establish from the very beginning and establish that anchor that no matter
John Kozicki (25:30.953)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (25:38.931)
where you drift off to, you can refer to that anchor and go, this is okay, I remember why I did it. And with what I do is like in my show, I take out people who aren’t fishermen, like celebrities and athletes and farmers and policemen, monster truck drivers, musicians, teach them how to fish. And then I go in their job for a day. So we swap jobs. And that’s kind of what motivates me a lot too, is that when I see someone fish for the first time and catch their very first fish and it’s like this big, something I wouldn’t be excited about normally. And I watch them like.
John Kozicki (26:03.695)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (26:06.897)
it’s their core memory now because they’re like, this is my first fish ever and I just did it on camera. And I’m like, you know what? It is kind of cool what I do. Like it kind of reignites like my passion and like reminds me. That’s why I like working with kids so much. I catch, I help kids catch their first fish all the time. And I’m like, man, like it is cool. Like I forgot like, and now my passion’s back. Like it refueled me. And then I get to do their jobs and I hear it from people all the time where they’re like, yeah, I kind of forgot like.
John Kozicki (26:10.621)
Right.
John Kozicki (26:24.167)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (26:30.463)
You know, I filmed with the Atlanta Braves pitcher recently. And I remember when we walked out in the field, I just stopped and I was like, oh my gosh, this is the grass of a stadium. Like this is and he was like, what do mean? Like, I just walk past this every day. I’m like, no, no, no. Stop for a minute. Look around. He’s like, oh, yeah, I forgot. It’s been a long time since I’ve done this for the first time. it’s like so it’s like having that anchor and whether it’s diversifying your attention so you can find many anchors or finding that one. having that one anchor is probably the best way just to keep yourself on track with everything.
John Kozicki (26:39.923)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (26:47.182)
Right.
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (27:00.703)
where it becomes, if you stay passionate, you’ll never stop working. If you stay ambitious, you’ll never stop working, because you won’t want to. Like how I said, I don’t want to retire, because I don’t think I’ll ever not be passionate about what I do. Because there’s so many facets. So if I get tired of the fishing part, then I love working with kids. If I get tired of working with kids for some reason, I love giving back to the community. I do a lot of that in my show. If I get tired of that, I have my children’s book series that I love doing. So I have all these things to always keep my ambition just rotating.
John Kozicki (27:29.063)
I love that. And I think, no, that’s okay. It’s important that diversification and finding gratitude in the different areas of what we create, because you’re absolutely right. Like in the music lesson world, if we get burnt out on scheduling, if we get burnt out on the monotony of kind of this rotating schedule of this student to this student to this student to this student to the same things that you’re teaching,
Mike McKinstry (27:31.327)
Sorry for the long answer.
John Kozicki (27:57.786)
it can wear on you. So finding those different areas to find gratitude. The other thing I think that is a challenge for us when we run a lifestyle business is is growth. Now, so because we’re focused on that, that work life balance in most jobs, you’d measure growth.
by numbers, 100 % by numbers, right? Like what are my sales this month compared to last month or whatever the case is. With lifestyle businesses, we’re also really, really focused on that work-life balance. And that’s an important metric because it’s part of the reason why we started our businesses in the first place. So personally, I’ve found that finding different metrics for growth is a key here because
If I’m too focused on sales, for instance, then I run the risk of giving myself the same kind of job that I was trying to avoid when I started my business in the first place. So with your spider marketing concept there, and you have the sort of the different legs, do you have any unique ways to, or different ways to measure growth?
Mike McKinstry (29:26.707)
Huh. I mean, yes is the easy answer. So.
John Kozicki (29:27.825)
You
Mike McKinstry (29:34.631)
Again, the innocence.
John Kozicki (29:35.56)
I mean, you’ve got some different pressures because you’ve got to produce a TV show, right? And obviously there’s deadlines and there’s all sorts of things involved with that. And there’s payroll involved with whoever’s going to be like working the production. So obviously you have to be concerned with those numbers and that’s a good metric for growth. the network is going to be looking, the network’s going to be looking for that, right? So you’re kind of forced into it in a different way.
Mike McKinstry (29:39.869)
Yeah, yeah.
Mike McKinstry (29:55.571)
Yeah, but it’s not a good metric. Yeah.
John Kozicki (30:03.485)
than I may be because I don’t have that kind of quote unquote boss.
Mike McKinstry (30:07.857)
Yeah, but here’s the fun part about what I do. So there’s two ways TV works. I’m a very short version here. You can sell your show to a network or you can own your show. And I refuse to sell my show to a network. Anytime I’ve had the opportunity to pop up, I say no before I hear a number because I don’t want the number to make me think differently. So I just say no. So with me owning my show, that means I pay for every fee, every…
John Kozicki (30:21.726)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (30:33.342)
Production I pay for everything the network would normally pay for I incur all of that which means I got to deal with all the funding all the budgets all the crew the payroll the the FCC fees the even the captioning like the smallest things that people don’t think of that the network would do normally I do all of it so My viewership matters to me and the brands I work with my sponsors the network I mean if my show tanked the network might be like hey look we don’t want
John Kozicki (30:49.851)
Yeah, right.
Mike McKinstry (31:00.895)
you know, be on our network anymore because it’s just doing terrible, but they can’t cancel me. So most people in my industry would look at their ratings as their metric of growth and be like, well, my viewers are going up. So everything is great where I literally am like, I consider myself a very unique businessman. I say that in air quotes for a reason because I don’t focus on on money. I focus on opportunity. And if I’m providing like we grew a crew to 11 people this year.
John Kozicki (31:25.245)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (31:30.903)
And five years ago, it was me and an intern or a friend when I could find one to film. So my metric that I follow with my career with every facet of what I do is am I providing more opportunity? And it’s not just to my crew, but it’s to my people. I went from doing kids events, I had 15 kids at a time, and those would grow so quickly. Now I work with 3,000 kids in a six month period.
John Kozicki (31:46.808)
Love that.
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (32:00.439)
and I turn down events constantly because I just don’t have time for more events anymore. I do three book readings all over the country for my books at schools. I just read to 620 kids at once and the kids didn’t want me to leave. Like I just had their attention for full hour and the teachers were emailing me like for days. I got a stack of cards from all the kids that sit over here in my office. Like that’s my metric is the opportunity I’m providing for people, whether it’s their income, their job. I just got the phone with someone earlier today that
doesn’t have any work experience, so they can’t get a job in sound design, but they have a degree in it. And I was like, my whole crew are grads from film school. My show is their first job. And I do that on purpose because I want to provide opportunity. I give a huge resume booster with a national TV show and Discovery Channel with Emmy nominations and five Telly Awards and all this stuff. Like, I want to provide that. And as long as I’m providing that, I’m providing opportunity.
John Kozicki (32:40.04)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (32:55.453)
I’m providing kids opportunity to learn how to fish for the first time or find new adventure, try something new, meet new people, take risks, find new adventures, all this stuff. As long as I’m providing more opportunity every single year, I am incredibly successful in my book. I don’t focus on the money, which I do get yelled at from some people because there’s times where I’m like, I should have been a little smarter with this expense, but I just funded a whole camp. So is it worth it to me? Sure. Was it smart? Probably not. But I don’t focus on that.
John Kozicki (33:12.803)
Hahaha
Mike McKinstry (33:25.063)
I don’t focus on the business side as much as I should. I focus on the opportunity. As long as opportunity is growing, I must be doing all right. And that’s something that’s, know, if I die tomorrow, what’s going to leave a bigger impact? Money I made or the opportunity that I provided and left? So, you know, and I guess that translates to your business too because if your student base is growing, you’re providing more opportunity. If your teacher base is growing, you’re hiring more teachers, your opportunity is growing.
John Kozicki (33:32.413)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (33:53.809)
If you’re spreading your passion more, you’re growing. Like I said earlier, if you focus on the money in any business, you’ll fail 100%. And I know you know this firsthand too. And I don’t even know your whole personal story, like everything, but I know this is accurate just because there’s no way it’s not with business. When you started out, you didn’t focus on making more money than you could have if you got a job somewhere else because that’s not possible. Like you can’t.
John Kozicki (34:19.559)
Right.
Mike McKinstry (34:19.613)
So I’m sure you had plenty of moments where you’re like, man, am I doing the right thing here? Because this is tough. Like, this is hard to live like this. Like, how do I support this and support myself? how do I, like, I have wants that I want to buy or pay for that I can’t because I have to put into the business. And if you aren’t willing to do that, you can’t have a business. You can’t. If you go into a business being like, I’m going to get rich doing this, you’ll never succeed. Ever.
John Kozicki (34:40.488)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (34:44.477)
because you have to go through that phase first of not being rich, of being the opposite, of not being poor or broke, but everything you make has to go into your business. And every energy drop you have has to go into your business. sleep, if you’re sick, vacations, family events, none of that matters. It’s all providing opportunity for your business. And then it comes back to you. Like I said five years ago, it was me and an intern. It was…
John Kozicki (34:53.511)
Yep.
Mike McKinstry (35:12.113)
I hit a million viewers for my first time five years ago, actually five years ago. I hit a million viewers in a whole season. And you know, now we’re in 288 million homes and in five years. And I don’t see that as my growth as much as I do of adding 11 crew members because now I provided opportunity and they’re going to provide opportunity for their family and their friends. they’re, know, it’s just going to like,
John Kozicki (35:19.997)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (35:38.567)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (35:41.139)
That’s what’s most important. go ahead. Go ahead. No, I’m just going to say, the metric that I would focus on for any business, even if you’re windshields, like I don’t care what you’re selling, if it’s your business, opportunity will give you a good judge. Like, there’s no, look at Walmart, the largest employer in the country. And their success money-wise is disgusting. Like, you know, three of them I think are in the top 10 richest people in the country.
John Kozicki (35:42.97)
You said, yeah, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
Mike McKinstry (36:10.707)
three the Walton family members. But the fact that they provide opportunity, they’re the largest employer. So they provide opportunity for more people than any other company in the country. To me, that is their sign of success. So it doesn’t matter what you’re selling or what you’re doing, if you are providing opportunity, then you are successful.
John Kozicki (36:28.547)
Mike, you mentioned two, I think, very important words in both that answer and…
one of your previous answers to my questions, you mentioned the words diversification and opportunity. And I think pursuing both of those things, like when you are looking for opportunities, when you are looking for ways to diversify, those are always going to help sustain and grow your business. And all those opportunities and ways to diversify, they might fail.
Right? Like you were saying before, they might fail, but that doesn’t mean you stop looking for them. That doesn’t mean you stop. You stop trying.
Mike McKinstry (37:14.929)
And I hope that everybody has failures when they try new things. mean, in my opinion, the biggest lesson you’ll ever get in life is being knocked down.
John Kozicki (37:23.451)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (37:23.583)
If everything you do is successful, you’ll never learn anything. You know what mean? Like if everything you do is just perfect, you’ll never have a lesson. So it’s important to try the diversification as much as you can because if like I said, if you have eight legs out there and four of them break off and fail, you have the four other ones that going to keep you going. That’s why it’s so important to diversify because if you only have one, if you put everything into one, like let’s say you start a music school and you’re just teaching power chords. Like that’s all you do. Like
John Kozicki (37:26.811)
Right? Yes.
Mm.
John Kozicki (37:48.827)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (37:51.101)
that’s going to fail. And when it does, you have nothing else to do. That’s why when you go to music school, there’s not even most music schools don’t even teach just one instrument. You teach multiple instruments because that way if guitar lessons are down, then drum lessons are up. you know, it’s like you have to diversify. You have to like because it’s just like like stock markets. Like you can’t put everything into one because when that goes up and down, that’s all you’re relying on. You can’t do that. And that’s another part where it all circles around that because you’re
John Kozicki (37:54.245)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (38:04.487)
you
John Kozicki (38:15.836)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (38:20.199)
your metrics aren’t gonna be great if you have one thing and that’s it because every day they’ll be up or down. Your ambition level is gonna be nuts because how can you be ambitious if the only thing you have going is going down for like a month straight? Like how do you get your mental block off to keep on grinding and trying when it’s just failing and failing and failing? But if you have seven other things that doing great,
Who cares about that one thing? If my children’s book sales take a huge dive next month, I don’t even care. They’ll go back up in three months or whatever. It’s fine, because it’s not my only thing. Do you find it hard? I wanted to ask you that too. In a music school, you find it hard to… Because most kids that come in, just from my experience at least, they don’t want to learn music theory. They want to learn songs, because that’s what’s cool to play with your friends. Nobody goes to a bonfire and goes, here, listen to my pentatonic scale.
John Kozicki (38:52.433)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (39:08.551)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (39:14.239)
Like they want to hear Green Day, you know, or they want to hear a song they know. Do you find it hard to stay like motivated, I guess, when you don’t get a lot of students unless you do, if I’m wrong, but you don’t get a lot of students that are just interested in what you’re passionate about in theory and like actually like mastering an instrument. Like they just want to learn power chords and Metallica songs like I did.
John Kozicki (39:14.492)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (39:35.239)
So what’s the question? Do we teach what they, is it’s hard to stay motivated to teach this?
Mike McKinstry (39:37.619)
Like is it hard for you to stay motivated?
Mike McKinstry (39:42.953)
when you’re just teaching like, you’re just teaching, like if kids just want to know like basic songs and that’s all they want to know, they’re not interested in the theory and the depth and like the things that like, that you know, that you’re willing to teach, like do you get, do you ever get this like discouraging, you’re like, man, I’m just like, if I teach one more power chord today, like, you know, like,
John Kozicki (39:54.79)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (40:02.149)
Okay, personally, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, Mike, I’m going to prescribe some previous episodes of this podcast for you to listen to. I think you’ll find out. Personally, no, I don’t because
Mike McKinstry (40:09.032)
You
John Kozicki (40:17.771)
I know that what got me interested in music was playing songs that I love, right? That’s what made me want to learn more about music. And I just happened to continue to take that further and further and further. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that I can’t come back to that place where I existed just wanting to learn how to play some songs and hang out with a kid who wants the same thing.
Mike McKinstry (40:46.174)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (40:47.023)
You know, so my answer is no, that doesn’t that’s not a problem keeping me motivated to play fun songs with kids. I think that’s absolutely great. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (40:58.143)
Yeah, I mean, it sounds awesome to me, but yeah, no, I just didn’t know, like, as a teacher, like, you have so much more to offer than, like, a three-chord Green Day song. But, like, I just know… Yeah.
John Kozicki (41:06.279)
Mm hmm. It’s a long, it’s a long game. It’s a long game. You know what I mean? I know that my job is to be where that kid is in the moment and then just travel along with him because that’s going to, that’s going to make me the best possible instructor for him in the moment. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (41:26.175)
Yeah, because you’re going to make him passionate about it if he wants to do it. It’s the same thing when I teach people how to fish and they’re like, you know, I want to get a kayak, so I’m going get the cheapest one I can get. And I was like, get the one that you like the most because you’ll be the most comfortable. You’ll do it more often. And if you do it more often, then you’re going to be into it more, you know.
John Kozicki (41:39.161)
Yeah, or
Or yeah, or when you shared that story about watching someone catch their first fish that’s, you know, five inches big, you didn’t turn around and say, all right, now, if you want to catch the big one, here’s here are all the things that you did wrong. Right. You just yeah, you just enjoy that moment. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (41:55.495)
Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s true. That’s true. Yeah. Let them catch. Let them. Exactly. Yeah. And I do that in the show, too. Like, I take grown adults out who have never fished before, and we do worms and bobbers. And like, to me, you know, up until the last year, to me, worms and bobbers were like, just for kids. Like, it’s not fun. Like, it’s just, it’s easy. And like, it’s just, it’s not fishing to me. It’s like, anyone can do it. And then the last year or so, I started doing it more on my show. And I was like, man, you know what? Like, I forgot.
John Kozicki (42:07.781)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (42:24.669)
I just wrote an article for the magazine about this actually, about worms and bobbers for adults. I’m like, I forgot how much fun it was just to throw a bobber out there and not have to like retrieve a lure a certain way perfectly for a fish to bite it. Like just to throw a worm and bobber and just let it sit and just have fun because like that’s what got me into fishing in the first place. So like it is fun. Like it is a blast. And I got to play the same way like you’re saying with the learning songs is like, that’s how I got into it. Like I remember Joe used to always be like, all right, so here’s the Ionian scale. I’m like, cool. So how do you play the solo for Fade to Black?
John Kozicki (42:41.264)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Kozicki (42:53.527)
All right.
Mike McKinstry (42:53.727)
I was like, I don’t really care if that, that’s a G, cool. How do you play it? And that’s why I liked working with him specifically so much is that he was a rocker. That dude just wanted to rock. He did not care that I went there and just be like, all right, I got a new tab book for offspring. Can you teach it to me? And that was what made me fall in love with music. And to this day, I’ve got, I don’t know, nine guitars in this room around the walls here. That’s why I’m still passionate about
John Kozicki (42:58.757)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (43:12.219)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (43:20.014)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (43:21.631)
is because I didn’t get deterred when I was a kid and forced to just learn theory, you know, that came with time. Ten years later, I was like, you know, I should probably learn what this scale is. I should probably learn how to do my own solos and how to like transition from this note to this. I guess you’re probably learn that, you know.
John Kozicki (43:33.883)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (43:38.023)
I’m going to switch gears here and kind of bring this one home. I’ve got one more question for you, Mike, and I’m going to go back to when you, you know, way back when you started your YouTube channel, you’d mentioned you had seven videos and 35 followers. OK, OK. How important is consistency?
Mike McKinstry (43:40.969)
Sorry.
Mike McKinstry (43:55.787)
33 or 33, yeah, yeah, something tiny.
Mike McKinstry (44:02.929)
my gosh, that was the hardest lesson for me to learn is consistency is just as important as the message you’re putting out. If you put out your heart one time, look at music. I love relating this to music all the time actually. How many one hit wonder bands have there been because they put everything they had into one song and they had nothing else to offer. Like they just didn’t, they’re like, that was it. Like my writing wasn’t good anymore or they just didn’t have anything that resonated with people after that.
I do the same thing. When I first started, my YouTube videos, like I said, I made them for me. So I didn’t really care if they got views. I didn’t really care if people liked them. I just wanted to put out something out there and just, as an artist, the hardest thing to do is take something that you’re passionate about and put it out to the world. know? Like, it’s the scariest feeling in the world, because you’re like, what if they don’t like it? What if I get judged? Or what people think I’m weird? Or like, once you take that little piece of yourself and put it out there, it’s terrifying. But once you do it enough,
John Kozicki (44:38.768)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (44:53.424)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (45:01.189)
it becomes exciting. becomes like, it becomes like you feel like you’re putting a painting at the Guggenheim and you’re just sitting back in the window watching people stare at it. And you’re just like, this is great. And if you don’t do, if you do it once, whether it’s good or not, it’s never going to propel you. It’s never going to make an impact. You have to do it repetitively. You have to constantly push yourself. You have to constantly take every ounce of passion and ambition you have and put it into every single project. So with YouTube specifically, if you don’t do that,
on a constant level, the algorithm shuts you down. Like I’ve got videos where I’ve got three, 400,000 views on them and it was a terrible video in my opinion. Like it wasn’t great. Like it was just like, you know, it was shot with a GoPro. Like it wasn’t produced. It wasn’t fancy. But it was in a period where I was posting twice a week. So it just got picked up on algorithms and it just took off. And then that video chased the next video and the next video and
John Kozicki (45:34.298)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (45:49.86)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (45:55.079)
Same thing on TikTok and everything like that. I have TikTok videos. have hundreds of thousands of views too, but they’re only because I was posting consistently at that time period. you know, consistency is super important, but also not the, not just the consistency of work, but like the consistency of the quality or the passion I should say that you put into it is almost more important. My biggest videos I’ve ever done on social media were always review videos. And the reason why is because those were the videos that I’m
John Kozicki (46:14.768)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (46:25.011)
the most passionate in. I’m not, you know, I’m not acting. I’m not being a host. You know, it’s just me talking about my opinion of something and showing it. And those resonated so well because that’s how people get to know me. They get to know my personality more. They get to see like, it’s the same guy that’s on TV. Like he’s the same person. Like I get it now. So it resonates more. And then I do that consistently where I constantly do live videos on socials. I constantly do like personal posts. I constantly do more like
John Kozicki (46:30.276)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (46:54.591)
you know, personal talking parts of my episodes even. I stay consistent with the content and with the amount of content. So now I make sure I post, you know, I post 60 posts a month on average. I post about, I’d about 35 like videos on YouTube shorts and reels and all the little short snippets. There’s about 35 of those a month. If not more, sometimes there’s 40 or 50 a month. Depends on what I’m doing that month.
John Kozicki (47:18.022)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (47:22.375)
So like the posting is super consistent. the, I’d say the exposure to people is, has to be consistent, but also the, what you’re putting into that has to be consistent. If I started doing like, you know, the clickbait pandering videos, they wouldn’t work. Like they just wouldn’t hit with my audience. Cause my audience would be like, what are you doing, Mike? That’s not you. Like, what are you doing? Like if I do like a fidget spinner video, they know that’s not me. That’s me trying to get clicks. Or if I do like a.
John Kozicki (47:40.208)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (47:43.974)
Right, yeah.
Mike McKinstry (47:46.265)
clickbait thumbnail like I guarantee you half my viewers would probably be messaging me and private messages going do you are you okay like that’s not you to do that stuff like you know fishing with gummy worms like that’s not my thing so you know staying consistent with your messaging and authentically you and also with the amount you post social media is a crazy world like I wish I didn’t have to do it for my job to be honest with you it’s a crazy world it’s not real it’s not a reality it’s like a it’s like a alternate
John Kozicki (47:52.996)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (47:57.806)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (48:02.787)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (48:15.773)
you know, virtual reality thing to me. Like it’s not like nobody posts their real life. Usually nobody is portraying. It’s the highlight reel of everybody. Like it’s all it is. So like to me, it’s like it’s fun to play that game. It’s fun to be like, I’m at Brave Stadium right now. Check it out. It’s great. But really I’m on like an 18 hour film day and I’m exhausted having eaten all day. And it’s like, but like people see that and go, man, what he’s living a life click alike, you know. So like it’s important to be consistent with
John Kozicki (48:22.232)
right.
Yeah.
John Kozicki (48:37.157)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (48:42.105)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (48:46.123)
Everything I do is high energy. It’s very important to be consistent with that. It’s very important to be consistent with the amount of that. But the most important thing and everything that I do or anybody should do is be consistent with what you’re passionate about and your authenticity. If everything you do is consistent with you being true and you being having integrity and like you being authentically you, that’s all that matters. Like that’ll it’ll all work out. You know if you’re always the same
you know, ambition, same person, same honesty, as soon as you change that, as soon as you compromise your character once, it’s gone. Your consistency is completely gone.
John Kozicki (49:24.857)
Yeah, it goes back to that why and the authenticity and being able to implement that into your marketing messages and present what it is about you that is unique and resonates with everyone else. I love it.
Mike McKinstry (49:30.047)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (49:43.155)
Yeah, I should have asked a clarifying question, I guess. Were you asking more about consistency for posting social media, for growing social media?
John Kozicki (49:51.504)
Well, I think it was it was targeted more at putting in the work and being consistent with like, mean, you grew this TV show that’s on a cable network now from your YouTube videos. And and you did that by being consistent with those YouTube videos, even when people weren’t watching. Right. Because.
Mike McKinstry (50:15.081)
You know what’s funny is I had my first sponsor. There was a kayak brand that I still work with today. Nine years I’ve been with this company. This is my 10th year, my decade year with them. They reached out to me when I first started. And I remember I was in my driveway. I remember where I was. Like I remember everything. I don’t know what day it is half the time, but I can tell you what the air smelled like that day on that phone call. And they emailed me first or messaged me on social media, then emailed me, then got my phone number, then called me.
John Kozicki (50:37.103)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (50:44.903)
And the guy said, hey, I’m going be honest with you. He goes, I either need to tell you to go away, like leave us alone, or I need to bring you on staff somehow. And I was like, what? He’s like, you’re doing like too much. He’s like, you’re posting every day. He’s like, you’re tagging us in a post like every like six hours. Like you’re making videos about our kayaks. He’s like, you know, you got a dealer in your area that didn’t carry that brand at the time. Then they started selling three or 400 kayaks a summer of that brand.
John Kozicki (50:53.802)
Hahaha!
Mike McKinstry (51:13.799)
And this company was like, we don’t know who you are or what you’re doing, but either stop and go away because you’re causing problems or B, bring you on staff and pay you because you’re causing problems. I was just so active. I went in with 140 % energy and they weren’t, they were like, we don’t even know who you are. Like, where did this come from? And I was like, I just love what I do and I love your kayak. I just love this stuff. Like, I’m so passionate. And I’m like, I’ll never forget that because that was like the first time where I realized like,
John Kozicki (51:19.845)
Hahaha.
Yeah.
John Kozicki (51:35.875)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (51:41.445)
I can be my hyperactive ADD, like over ambitious self and people either can love it or hate it. Like I’ve definitely rubbed people the wrong way that personality plenty of times. but also people can see that and go, man, like we got to bring you on or something. Like it was a lot. So like that’s where everything changed. Cause that was the first time someone paid me to do what I do is they called me up and they’re like, Hey, we’ll give you a free kayak. Whenever you want a new one, we’ll give you a, we’ll give you one for free.
John Kozicki (51:45.913)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (52:07.619)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (52:07.967)
And we’ll give you like, think it was like 150 bucks a month. I think they were paying or something like that. Just to keep doing what you’re doing. Like don’t stop doing it. Just don’t do anything different. Just keep doing it. We just want to bring you on board and you you’ve already got our stuff. And then that was my light bulb moment where I was like, wait a minute. Like, I don’t need to tone down my energy. I can keep on doing this. I can post six times a day and companies like that, like it’s okay with that. Like they’re not, like this isn’t like, you know, I didn’t work with them, but I was tagging them and post every day. And that’s why I always tell people like,
John Kozicki (52:19.961)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (52:35.246)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (52:37.215)
Do the work as if you’re already getting the reward and the reward will come because you’ll earn it instead. And today’s society is very different from when we grew up where you couldn’t ask for things without earning them. You know what mean? Like it would be ridiculous. when we were kids, if I would have asked for something without doing what I needed to do to earn it, I would have like, can’t imagine the response I would have got. Nowadays, it’s like the norm. Like these companies are used to that. We’re like, hey, I’m going to do this and this if you give me this. And they’re like, OK.
John Kozicki (52:40.76)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (52:49.698)
Yes. Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (53:05.247)
And I’m like, why would you do that? Now you’re not gonna get, it’s not gonna happen now because they already got the reward. We learned that when we were kids, if you give me the candy I want, I’m not gonna get all A’s because you gave it to me before I had to get all A’s. like, you know what I mean? So like I did the work first and I still work that way today. Like if I wanna work with a brand, like if there’s a sponsor I wanna work with really bad, I’ll buy their product as a customer, I’ll call their customer service as a customer, I’ll call with complaints or positive reviews.
John Kozicki (53:06.826)
Hahaha!
Right.
John Kozicki (53:16.089)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (53:34.045)
I’ll go on their social media. I do like six months to a year of being a full-time customer to make sure I like their product, to make sure that I would buy it if I saw it on a TV show, to make sure that their customer service would treat anybody, whether they’re somebody that works with the company or somebody who’s just my mom calling them. I want to make sure that they have the same values, integrity, and everything because we reflect each other. If all that works out, then I start
John Kozicki (53:50.956)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (54:00.158)
promoting their product for free, because I like it as a customer. I’m like, hey, check this stuff out. It’s very hard for people to find out what brands I’m actually getting paid by or not, because I promote what I like no matter what. The paycheck doesn’t change. don’t stop promoting a brand if I’m not getting paid by them. I don’t, unless I have a contract issue, obviously. I don’t, know, a lot of people think that I’m sponsored by like this certain beverage company, because I post about them. And I’m like, no, I just genuinely love what they do.
John Kozicki (54:10.585)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (54:26.542)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (54:26.911)
I call the company and they have this charity initiative that I love and I help out with actually. like, they’re just a great company. Like they deserve to be promoted. Like if they pay me one day, cool. If they don’t, cool. It doesn’t change. And it’s like, when I, if I do want to work with them though, by the time I call them, they’re like, oh yeah, we’ve seen you. Like you tag us. Like we saw your stuff. I already have a value that I already built for them. I already created a budget almost or a demand because when I reach out to them, now they’re like,
John Kozicki (54:46.606)
Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (54:54.131)
man, like we either have to work with you at this point or like cut you loose because like you’re already doing so much for us. And that’s kind of the, that’s my number one key to how I’ve been successful with what I do is that I do the work first and then I don’t expect the reward, but the reward usually will happen naturally that way. And it’s almost hard for a company to say no when I show them what I can do before asking for anything in return. And they see that and it’s lost on today’s
John Kozicki (55:12.099)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (55:20.74)
Right.
Mike McKinstry (55:23.571)
culture. So they see that and go, man, like, why are you doing all that? Like, we didn’t pay you anything. Like, you do more than the guys that we pay. And I’m like, I know. Imagine what would happen if you paid me. Like, imagine if I could get more. Like, imagine if I could have my photographer involved instead of me doing pictures. Or imagine if I could have my whole crew make videos and stuff about your stuff. now you can visualize it, you know? So like, it’s super important to have that ambition, but it’s super important to have that reality check that nobody owes you anything.
John Kozicki (55:32.032)
Hahaha
John Kozicki (55:40.238)
Right.
Mike McKinstry (55:50.245)
and just do everything for yourself, everything authentically you, everything true to yourself. If you like something, use it. If you like what you’re doing, then do it. And the rewards will come. I’m sure you do the same thing. You’re passionate about music, and you have two choices in the music industry, either work in the industry in some capacity, whether it’s teaching or working for a company, or be a musician. That’s your two options in the music industry. And same thing in the fishing world. Either be a professional fisherman or work for a company that sells fishing gear.
John Kozicki (56:17.247)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mike McKinstry (56:18.461)
That’s your two options in any industry. So I’m sure you had the same thing where you went into it and you’re like, okay, you know, do I chase this one or do I chase this one? Which one is going to be have longevity? Which one’s going to make me more passionate? Which one’s going to provide more opportunity? Not just for me, but for others. And which one is going to be the thing that I can be happy that I did? Like I’ll be content with what I did. And, you know, and I’ve heard your band back in the day, like you weren’t a bad musician by any means, but
John Kozicki (56:33.57)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (56:41.134)
Yeah.
Mike McKinstry (56:46.751)
I’m sure a lot of people are grateful that you have somewhere that teaches people how to be inspired by music instead because you were able to make a really big impact.
John Kozicki (56:54.882)
Well, thank you. you. Mike McKinstry. That’s all right. Mike McKinstry. New season of Basquatch Hunter Fish Out of Water premieres July 5th. I think I saw July.
Mike McKinstry (56:58.077)
I talk a whole lot, sorry man.
Mike McKinstry (57:08.713)
July 4th and 5th. So July 4th on the Pursuit Channel and July 5th on Discovery Channel.
John Kozicki (57:12.898)
All right, there you go. And on your YouTube channel as well, Mike, thanks for coming on the show and joining me.
Mike McKinstry (57:20.997)
Absolutely, thank you so much for having me, John.
John Kozicki (57:23.396)
All right, we’ll talk to you guys next time.
Woo.
