In this episode of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast, John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) discuss building a sense of community among music students, particularly those receiving private lessons. They explore how private instructors can create interactions similar to those found in rock schools and other performance-based programs.
Inspired by John’s recent experience as a speaker for a Utah Music Teachers Association panel discussion, they discuss the divide between traditional and rock school teaching approaches. The conversation sparks a multitude of practical ideas for fostering student engagement and building a lasting musical culture.
From inviting students to play together and networking with local instructors to hosting open mics and scheduling jam days, John and Mandy share simple yet impactful ways to connect learners. Tune in for a rich discussion on making music a collective journey.
For related conversations, also check out the following episodes:
- 10: Prioritize Playing Over Teaching in Private Lessons
- 8: Rock Band for Dummies: How to Start and Grow a Band Program
Your ratings and reviews on Apple Podcast and Spotify are always appreciated!
Join our private Facebook group, “Performance-Based Music Programs and Rock Schools,” a community for like-minded professionals to connect and share insights.
Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:01.12)
On this episode of Rock School Proprietor podcast, Mandy and I are discussing ways to create a sense of community amongst your students. And we’re gearing this more toward private instructors whose students don’t always have the same interactions as those who might be in a rock school like my studio. This was all inspired by a recent experience I had as a presenter at a panel discussion for the Utah Music Teachers Association. Stay tuned.
John Kozicki (00:31.86)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor podcast. I’m John Kozicki. How are you, Mandy? I’m good. This week, I think I told you, I was on a panel discussion. Yeah. Have you ever done that? It was, I’ve done similar before, but this was what was unique to this circumstance for me.
Mandy York. I’m great how you doing John?
Mandy York (00:47.97)
I have not.
John Kozicki (00:59.83)
was this was I was invited by the Utah Music Teachers Association, right? The UMTA, which is I guess a chapter, like a state chapter of the like the national MT, I think it’s MTNA, right? To present on this panel discussion. And by the way, thanks Tiffany Horrocks, who I know she listens. So thank you Tiffany for inviting me. She did a great job.
I was largely speaking with piano instructors or two piano instructors. So I did feel a little bit like the black sheep.
You’re like that rock and roll guy on the panel.
Right? Yeah, like, hey, what’s up? No, but it kind of reminded me a little bit of one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast in the first place, like, you know, me coming from more of that, you know, less traditional rock background and you coming from the more traditional. mean, you’re an opera singer, right? So that’s.
Mandy York (02:13.144)
Yeah, I think this is cool.
Walk in there and they’d be like, she’s an opera singer. I walk in there and they’re like, who’s this guy with the weird hair?
I love that they had you though. I mean, you’re right. This is why we do this. And I think we can learn so much from the different perspectives and we’re all teaching music. There’s not one right answer and there’s not just one student. So, right. Cool. I’m glad you had that experience.
It was I enjoyed it now I I suspect the reason why I was asked to do this is because The discussion was very much focused on things like student engagement and building culture Among students and in your lesson studio and obviously I am all about that stuff I love that stuff and I always want to talk about it but
The format of this panel discussion was such that I just wish I was able to talk more, you know, and maybe I really wanted to get more feedback from the quote unquote audience. It was on zoom, right? So, because I wanted to hear maybe like what some of these piano instructors thought about my, my answers to the questions, right? And because
John Kozicki (03:38.156)
There’s always, I mean, we’ve talked about how it very much feels like there’s this disconnect between like the rock school world and the more traditional world, right? And I don’t believe that that’s like a reason why like we all can’t sort of approach music lessons and culture and our studios in a similar manner. So I just wish I was able to talk a little bit more.
And so I figured, well, maybe we’ll talk about it. So let’s see. One of the questions that I was asked, and this is kind of one that I really wanted to get into because I thought like, okay, well, I’ll just propose the question. I was asked,
Let’s talk about it. Yeah. Perfect.
John Kozicki (04:36.308)
Have you found any ways to create a sense of community among your students? And of course, I am just like, yes, here we go. Right. Because that’s literally what what we do in my studio. It’s like I am the rock school guy. So let’s go. Right. And so I’m thinking like, this is such an easy answer. You put
two students in a room together and like, there you go. That’s how you start creating culture. But my co-panelist in, after I kind of replied.
One of things she mentioned was like, well, that’s hard for some piano instructors. don’t know. And I kind of understand that, but I guess I’m just so in that world where it’s like, yeah, try and figure out a way to get students to play together. It seems foreign to me that someone would be like, well, no, we can’t always do that.
Yeah, no. mean, I know it is what you’re really good at it. I know it’s what you are really good at. But, but I can see the perspective from the piano teacher because these are, it’s just a private lesson. Their students come in, they have their lesson, they leave, the next person comes in and it depends on, you know, we all do things differently. It depends on what their, their studio space looks like, what other kinds of offerings that they have.
But I’m not surprised to hear that they think that that’s a hard thing to form in their piano studios.
John Kozicki (06:20.758)
So I started my answer by saying that community is built on a shared interest. again, to me, I just feel like, well, like we all have that shared interest when we’re talking about music lessons, right? It’s already there. Like as instructors or as the like
the studio owner or whatever, we’re in a really unique situation where we’re just making those connections, right? Because we already know that shared interest exists, so let’s make the connections. And again, I guess maybe because I’m always thinking about this, does that seem like a foreign idea to?
It’s, don’t think it’s top of mind for every instructor, right? I just don’t. think you’re, um, you’re getting through the method book. You’re working towards a solo solo performance or a solo competition, right? It’s, it’s just not top of mind. Um, I think it’s, it would be beneficial to bring in, um, more of those community aspects into a private lesson studio. I mean, because you,
You see the benefits of that, right? You’re going to enrich the student’s experience.
Well, and that’s not even to mention like long-term benefits for both the student and the instructor. There’s going to be like better retention. Longer term benefits are going to be like your student is never going to be like, I remember when I finished that method book there, you know, they’re never going to think that. But if, if you put them in a situation in which.
Mandy York (08:00.609)
Exactly.
John Kozicki (08:20.462)
10 years after they’ve been in lessons, they’re, you know, maybe with some friends and there’s a piano or there’s a guitar or whatever they play and they sit down and they play and then friends gather around and they start singing or whatever. That’s going to be that long lasting impression where the student thinks like, man,
I’m so glad my instructor taught me to do this.
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. I, I think that not being a piano teacher, but that there, the goals are towards solo playing, right? Like I said before, and solo competition. So, the, they will remember those things, you know, learning this piece of music and performing this piece of music, but those are the goals. and, I can speak for my
my experience, you know, just in college, that the pianist spends a lot of time in a practice room all alone playing piano, right? And that’s one path, though. That’s a thing.
But why do they have to be alone? It’s always why.
Mandy York (09:38.936)
Well, it’s a solo instrument, right? They’re working now. Is it? Well.
Okay, I’m sorry. I need you. This is what I wanted. I needed you to tell me like, okay, what am I missing here?
The piano, yes, the pianist, they’re playing solo. But.
I think it’s beneficial to the student to diversify, right? So a lot of pianists will accompany choirs or singers or other instruments. in my mind, I’m thinking all this more formal and classic stuff. But no, they’re playing keys in the band, right? And that is very different experience than learning.
a piece of music by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So I think what the private lesson teacher needs is, okay, what does this practically look like? Well, give me some practical examples of how, I, the only private lessons I’ve ever taught, you know, I’ve been out of the home in a church basement, things like that. I never had a studio to where I could like implement culture and community, but if I did,
Mandy York (11:00.174)
And I can speak as a student, going to lessons on a weekly basis, but then going to, I mean, we called it studio, where multiple students met together at once and performed for each other what they were working on. Okay. Okay. That’s something, right? That’s a way to learn from each other, to hear other people. Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve thought of this too, when you are, you know, a solo instrumentalist, singer, whatever.
in a studio of the same instrument or voice, there’s some competitiveness there too. Right?
yeah. I would say that exists in in like the rock school also.
Absolutely. But yeah, I just, feel like if you keep everyone separate, it feels more competitive than if you bring people together, than learning from each other.
because you don’t, it’s all in your mind. Yes. Yeah. Right. It’s like less healthy competitiveness. Yeah. And more like, like kind of messing with your head competitiveness.
Mandy York (12:07.872)
Yeah, there’s a lot of that that can happen. Yeah. So bringing your students together is a pretty simple way. Maybe they don’t exactly play with each other, but playing for each other, kind of master class style, where you’re working with students one on one in front of the group and learning from each other in that way. But another way would be to put students together. A piano teacher can’t create.
rock bands can’t be create bands with her students, right? Okay. Like you do, but they can play duets together. Yes. You know, if it’s a studio, if it’s a music school where you have, where you offer multiple instruments, you know, team up with another, a different instrument to accompany or a voice to accompany. Right. Your student is going to learn so much. We’ve talked about this before.
Okay.
John Kozicki (13:01.294)
Thanks for
Mandy York (13:05.282)
The students learn so much in working together, you know, in their ears and just the flexibility and the concentration it takes to play with another person.
Yeah, and if we are talking about building community, again, going back to what my initial thought was, like community is built on a shared experience, a shared interest, right? If you already know that all of these people who are in your circle, in your studio, your students, whatever, they have that shared interest, which is music. So all you have to do…
is get them to interact around music. So I do have, I’m trying to put myself in that perspective of like maybe the solo instructor, right? Or the instructor who only teaches private lessons or the instructor who, you know, otherwise just doesn’t have that the same.
interactions with other people.
So I had some ideas.
John Kozicki (14:26.006)
And I think like, let’s go point by point on some of these ideas and you’re already mentioning them. I figured we’ll like jump in. But one of them was, and again, this was the, this was my suggestion, right? Put the kids together and have them start, start playing together. So my thought was when you put kids together, yeah, they’re going to be playing music together, but they’re also going to get to know one another.
Right? They’re going to talk about whatever, because that’s what kids do. Like, how long have you been taking lessons? How old are you? Right? Isn’t it funny how kids are just like at a certain age or through a certain age, like how old are you is like the biggest, but yeah, they’ll, they’ll just ask like random questions because that’s what kids do. And, and then as their parents are like maybe waiting, their parents are going to talk together. And then.
there you go, you’ve started to nurture a sense of community in your studio because the kids are playing together but they’re also talking with one another, their parents are talking with one another and then that just sort of grows from there. I mean, missing anything?
No, that’s exactly it. think this requires a little extra work to make this happen. And I think if you know your students and are able to group them or pair them appropriately, you can really create some really awesome sparks there.
Yes, it does.
Mandy York (16:11.19)
these two students are really into musicals. Cool. Like if you, you know, grouping them based on their, musical preferences or, or even other preferences, just, know, so you’ve got a good basis there.
Yeah, yeah. And I think you’re absolutely right. It does take a little extra work.
But again, I think that benefit, the long-term benefit is worth the extra effort. When you think about how this will improve retention, how will improve the engagement of those students in their lessons and how much the parents are going to love you for doing this stuff. Huge, huge benefits for, yes, a little bit extra work, but I think the benefits far outweigh the extra work. Okay, now the logistics.
of it. Yes. Right. So how do you do this? Well, so one, this is a really easy one. I’ve done this in way back when, when I was just teaching guitar, when I was just doing private lessons. You invite your next student in a little bit early to play with
the student you’re with, right? Like maybe the last five minutes of a lesson, you know, invite the next student in or keep your current student an extra five minutes or so for when the next student comes in, right? And so it doesn’t take much in terms of logistics and just introduce the kids, like having placed stuff together. Now, obviously, practically, you got to figure out like if you’ve got a student who’s, you know,
John Kozicki (17:56.79)
maybe 15 and the next student is like maybe eight. Might not work, although who knows? Who knows? Maybe it will. So that’s one technique. Let’s see.
What about a group lesson? If you pair two students up and I mean, maybe one has their lesson on Tuesday, the other on Thursday, but they’re both free at those times. What if one week, you know, your, have your own private lesson and you go in on your partner’s lesson.
Mm-hmm.
The following week you flip-flap. Yeah. You only have a group lesson and your partner gets a solo lesson. Right. Right. Right. I mean, all of this, yes, it can be tricky to coordinate, but that’s another way to do it. If you’ve got just two students working together on a project.
Yeah, yeah. So paired with that, actually the other panelist on this UMTA discussion, Becky.
John Kozicki (19:03.406)
She said she’s got all sorts of percussion instruments in her studio. Also, I love that idea, right? If you have maybe one student on piano and have the other student play a cajon or like a hand drum or something, and then have them switch. it’s not their primary instrument, but break down those barriers. If they can play…
I’m focused on piano now again because that was the nature of this discussion. But if they can play piano, they understand rhythm, they should be able to play, you know, some sort of percussion instrument. Okay. Invite students to an open mic night. What do think of that one?
Thank
Mandy York (19:49.39)
I love that. preparing something. It’s it’s the same thing as kind of that like Studio group. Mm-hmm. Like everyone come share what you’re learning. Yeah deal
Yeah, I mean, I suppose you could even host an open mic night at your studio, even if you’re a solo instructor. If you’re like maybe a mobile instructor, or you go to someone’s house, or your students houses, maybe one of the parents would want to host it sometime. When I was again, going back to when I was just teaching guitar lessons, I would invite my students to open mic nights in a bar.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. So maybe not right for everyone, the, again, that’s, that’s building that community. And I think when you take, when you take the music out of the lesson room and you just play it someplace else, it’s going to feel different. Yes. yeah. Different venue, different experience. Other people are there. You, know, there’s that communal aspect of like, let’s say you have four of your students show up at this open mic night.
Thanks.
John Kozicki (21:03.006)
And there’s that communal aspect of just talking with one another as other people are performing. Right. That’s building community. That’s talking about music. think that that counts. Have you, have you ever done an open mic night? have.
It does.
Mandy York (21:21.738)
Not really really no. Okay, we’ll work on that.
You should.
Your dad came to open mic night.
yeah, my dad does open mic nights and he plays around. Around town.
You should do it. Okay, you kind of mentioned this, like schedule a jam day. Yeah. Yeah. One thing that we do in my studio is we’ll choose a song of the month. It’d be really easy for, you know, anyone in any lesson situation, choose a song of the month for jam day. And then people get together, they play together, as you had mentioned, improvising, right?
John Kozicki (22:06.732)
put if you had two students, one plays chords, one plays like a melody or even like, you know, improvises on some scales.
What great skills, you know, amazing.
playing harmonies, right? That would be another thing they could do. I talked about percussion instruments. That’s another thing. Okay. Networking with other private music instructors.
Yes.
This one I think people might get scared by or certain people might get scared by.
John Kozicki (22:48.96)
You talked about the like the competitiveness in like, yeah, between students. But we also talked about how most of the time that’s kind of in your head if you’re not interacting with them. We all have other instructors in our communities, right? And I think the the perception is like we’re in competition.
between students.
John Kozicki (23:16.982)
Right? in competition for for students. I don’t know how true that is. I used to think that way too.
Mm-hmm. yeah, I get it
But having met a lot of local instructors in our area, don’t think that’s, I don’t think it’s true. I think those are kind of manufactured ideas that we have in our heads until we actually meet some people. mean, maybe there are some jerks out there, right? But, you know, you figure that out and it doesn’t necessarily have to be the same instrument. Like you can network with an instructor who teaches a different instrument as a, as like a.
Yeah.
testing the waters.
Mandy York (24:02.23)
Singers need instrumentalists. Team up with a vocal instructor, you know? Because I think that, again, it’s a great skill for an instrumentalist to learn how to work with a singer.
You know what instrument absolutely would love to play with any other instrumentalist is a drum student. my gosh. Playing drums by yourself, a private drum instructor who only teaches drum lessons. That’s, yeah, they need. Yeah, yeah. I can’t tell you.
They need collaboration.
John Kozicki (24:43.598)
When I was a kid, my friend who was a drummer would be like, okay, guess what song I learned? And then he’d play the song on the drums. I don’t know. It’s a drum beat. So yeah, I think networking with with other instructors. Let’s see, if you teach alone, like reach out to other local instructors, if you teach in a studio.
coordinate with other instructors in your studio, reach out to fellow musicians who you know who play, right? We’re all, if we teach, we are musicians. We know other musicians. If you don’t want to network with other instructors, well then maybe reach out to other musicians that you know and say, hey, we want to do this jam thing. Would you want to come and like be part of our backing band? When I put my students.
together to play a few songs or something.
You know, another thing you’ve done, you’ve had professional musicians come in. You’ve brought your students together to, you know, hear a professional musician play and then, and speak to the kids about music.
Yes, great thoughts. And in fact, my co-panelist at this discussion, Becky, she did mention that she’s taken students to concerts. Yeah, that’s I think that’s fantastic. She takes students to to a concert. Again, they’re communing around music, right? Something that we’ve done, we all do, whether we play instruments or not, we commune around music.
John Kozicki (26:31.342)
So yeah, that’s a great idea, inviting those musicians into your studio to talk to the students or even perform. That’s another great idea. Let’s see, anything else that you can think of for building that community?
No, I think those are all really great ideas. I’m my, my wheels are turning and maybe I think we need to touch on this in another episode, actually. I’m brainstorming here, but, I’m building community all the time too, just like you are with my adults and play groups form out of my community. And we, you know, I don’t do anything, any private lessons. I’ve got, you know, 12 to 18 people in the room at the same time, every, every class that I teach. we’re constantly building community.
but I’m really into community engagement too. It’s a little bit different, like kind of making your studio part of the larger community. Right. Right. And you do some of this, you do a lot of this actually, because you’re playing at local, you take your kids to local festivals, local fundraisers in town. So you’re getting like, your, your kids are using the skills that they learn within the community.
the community is seeing you and knowing that you are a part of the fabric of this, this town, right? So it’s a little bit different than this community. What we’re talking about today, just forming the community within our studio, but.
I think that those are all great ways to plant those seeds though and build that community. In fact, yeah, as you’re talking about it, I’ve not done this yet, like listeners steal this idea if you want. Busking night was, you know, I was trying to coordinate it, it hasn’t happened. Hopefully I’ll find a way to do it. But
John Kozicki (28:29.418)
how cool would it be just if, you know, we live in a small town, right? So we’ve got like a nice downtown and people walk in downtown. but how cool would it be if you took like maybe five of your students and one night they all went out and they did like they busked. And, you bring in like a charitable partner. So any of the donations will go to like some local charity or something like that.
that’s building community, right? Is it building community amongst your students? Maybe. I mean, I think you could figure out how to encourage the students to interact.
You’re giving them a great opportunity that they’re going to remember and it’s good experience.
Sure, sure. But yeah, you’re right. Community engagement. That’s a good one.
I do a concert every summer. Yeah. So, right. And we, and when I do those kinds of things, it’s completely open to the public. the majority are my families that regularly attend, but I get a lot of exposure that way. And it’s just a way of us, opening our, like opening our arms to the broader community and sharing what, what we do and the music.
John Kozicki (29:40.818)
You could also, just thinking of this one, our town does host concerts in the park. A lot of towns do that. As an instructor, you could sponsor one of those concerts and then you invite all your students to attend, right? And again, you’re going to a concert together or maybe don’t even, you know.
again, just go to the concert or maybe you get your students to perform at one of those concerts. We’ve done that before the community concerts. So, many good ideas. Lots of things. I think it’s just thinking out, like you said, thinking outside of the method book, right? We’re so focused on the mechanics of like the lesson and what we do and trying to make sure our students are achieving their goals and progressing and…
Yeah, we just kind of get lost in that so community Should make these ideas available on the website we kind of meandered I originally thought like we put bullet points, but I’ll see what I can do if I can if I can get it together We’ll put something on the website. Mm-hmm. All right
We will.
Mandy York (30:55.01)
Yeah, I think the idea is it doesn’t matter your setup, what you’re doing. There are definitely ways to bring people together. And if it isn’t already, make it top of mind. It’ll benefit you and the students for sure.
I love it. Yeah. All right. Well, we’ll wrap this one up. Thanks for all the great ideas, Mandy. You too. We’ll see you next time.
Bye.
John Kozicki (31:18.134)
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