In this episode of the Rock School Proprietor Podcast, John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) discuss the intriguing connection between early exposure to music and possibly links to ease of learning. They discuss how early experiences with music—as infants and toddlers—can significantly influence a child’s ability to grasp new concepts later in life. The conversation explores how music exposure is akin to language development, highlighting the importance of rhythm and pitch practice in early years.
Mandy shares her insights from teaching Music Together, a research-based program, where she observes the developmental stages from infancy through elementary years, and their impact on musical learning.
In this episode:
- Breaking down the developmental stages of music learning from birth to elementary school age.
- How engaging with pitch and rhythm is essential, and how even older learners can benefit from going back to these basics.
- The importance of viewing music as a language, and drawing parrallels to other language learning.
Through anecdotes and research, John and Mandy examine why some students seem inherently easier to teach and how foundational musical practices at home can set the stage for successful music lessons later on.
Click here to Watch Victor Wooten’s Ted Talk, Music as a Language
Join our private Facebook group, “Performance-Based Music Programs and Rock Schools,” a community for like-minded professionals to connect and share insights.
Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:04.076)
What makes some students incredibly easy to teach and others more challenging? We’ve all had those more challenging students who are slower to pick up new concepts and require great flexibility in how we teach. There are likely many factors at play, but one of them may just be related to how they were exposed to music as a baby or toddler. Mandy shares what she’s learned through teaching music together and how research suggests that early experiences with music can actually make it easier for students to learn.
That’s on this episode of Rock School Proprietor Podcast.
John Kozicki (00:43.51)
School Proprietor podcast. name is John Kozicki.
and I’m Mandy York.
we were talking about, well, Mandy, you were talking about your early childhood, baby and toddler classes. And I’m always fascinated by listening to all the research that you share. And like, it’s very academic, in a sense, which is, it’s kind of funny to think that
You know, there’s such an academic approach to singing songs with babies.
Yeah. Yes. You know, it’s why I fell in love with music together. It’s a beautiful research based program.
John Kozicki (01:29.358)
What it got me thinking about when students start in private lessons, and this could be, you know, it could be maybe they’re seven years old, maybe they’re 10 years old. And as a private music instructor or a lesson instructor, it’s kind of interesting how sometimes we have those students who come in and they just get it and they’re super easy to teach.
And it makes the job really easy and they’re really fun to work with because they just sort of get it. And then sometimes we have more challenging students where it feels like everything is, their progress is slower, getting them to understand even like basic rhythms and like everything is more challenging.
And you had mentioned to me some of the stuff that happens in those very early childhood, you know, even as babies, some of those things that could be happening that it made me wonder like, does that contribute to maybe a one of those easy students to work with versus maybe a student who didn’t have that as a baby or as a toddler or as like a
a young child, maybe they’re the students who are more challenging to work with. So what if we got into that?
I think there’s something there to what you’re saying. I think, you know, maybe just off the bat, music learning is a lot like language learning. And if your students are coming in to take lessons and join the band and they don’t have any kind of background, it’s a lot harder for them to speak the language of music than the kids that have some sort of foundation. Yeah.
John Kozicki (03:40.674)
You had mentioned to me and I’m thinking about myself a little bit and I don’t remember I was actually just having a conversation with some of my instructors yesterday. I do not remember a time in my life where I wasn’t listening to music playing to music like I don’t have a memory of it, you know my
My mom loved music. My dad loved music. My mom taught dance as a kid when I was a kid. And it was always present, which I would assume just made it easier for me to understand music and to play music. And I’ve definitely noticed with a lot of the students that really excel at my music school, there’s
When I talk to the parents ahead of time, we’ll say, yeah, come from a really musical family or, you know, we listened to a lot of music. We never played, but we listened to a lot of music. I hear that a lot. What about your childhood? What was?
Yeah, the same. My dad played guitar. So I don’t remember a time when, you know, he didn’t play. He played at home. He played at family gatherings. I remember the record player. We played music all the time. My mom did not sing or play anything, but my dad did and my siblings and I always joined in.
So when it comes to the training that you get for your music together classes that you teach and all the studying that you’ve done, what happens in those early developmental stages to kind of set kids up for potentially to make it easier for them to learn music?
Mandy York (05:39.81)
Yeah, gosh, a lot. Zero to five. I forget just the music learning. There’s so many changes happening in these early years, right? I guess, I mean, I can share, I’d love to share with you like some of the things that I tell my families about through the stages as they’re in class with me.
I think that would be helpful for me even just to understand when kids come to my studio at I mean, they might come as early as like four or five, but maybe at 10 to sort of understand like, okay, what happened before? Yeah, right. What happens? What have they done? Even if it hadn’t even if there were no classes, even if there was no lessons, let me get an understanding of what
heart in their lives music has played, if any.
Yeah. Well, again, I like the metaphor of music is music learning is like language learning. know, we don’t with our young ones. We don’t teach them language. We just use language. Yes. And the music is the very same way. We don’t teach them music. We just play with music. And that can be listening. Now, listening.
lights up the brain different differently than like actually making music. And by making music, mean, using your body and using your voice. That’s where the real magic happens instead of just passive listening, but, we just expose them to music and make music with them. and, our program is not goal oriented, but really, you know, moving through the program and by the age of five,
John Kozicki (07:33.902)
Right.
Mandy York (07:40.79)
a child should be able to keep a steady beat and sing in tune. We call it basic music competence.
You had told me and this kind of blew me away. You had told me that there are outliers, but I think you might have used a percentage I’m not sure. By a certain age, every person has a sense of pitch and a sense of rhythm, like they can keep time and they can stay in key.
everyone has that potential yes gotcha yes okay every everyone I think what I was saying was there’s like really the bell curve of you know basic music competence there’s like less than five percent of the population that really truly physiologically for whatever reason cannot sing in tune or keep a steady beat but as people we are
That’s built into us. That’s something we can do. So when my grownups tell me like they can’t sing in tune or, know, I’m not musical. Really we’re born musical, but if we don’t just use music, same way we use language when we’re young, we don’t reach that potential, right? We have a predisposition. And if you don’t practice or use the language of music, you’re never going to reach.
interesting.
Mandy York (09:06.296)
that potential that you were born with.
It sounds similar to certain skills that that kids develop that are very much. There are certain developmental stages in a child’s upbringing, right? In a baby’s upbringing, right? And if kids are not exposed to those things in those windows of time, well, then they struggle. Yeah, so it’s interesting that that’s it’s kind of the same thing.
Yes.
John Kozicki (09:35.062)
with music. I mean, it’s like kind of makes perfect sense, but it’s interesting.
Well, it would be a lot harder for us to learn a foreign language right now at the ages that we are. Right. Yes. But I know many families that have bilingual toddlers, right? Because they’re just using the languages at home and exposing them early. It’s easier for them to learn when all that brain development is happening. Okay, John, I’m just going to give you some of this stuff. Okay. So I get them young, teeny tiny.
Let’s say let’s say a baby comes in and they’re three months old
I’ve had them earlier than that even. Now at that age, caregivers are singing to the kids. These babies aren’t going to sing back to you. They’re not able to control their arm movements yet, maybe. So everything that they hear and feel has to come from you. You’re the primary caregiver. You’re the primary model. So maybe you’re moving their little limbs to the beat. They’re laying on the floor and they’re looking up at you. Facial expression is so important to the tiny ones, right?
You’re singing a song, you’re tapping on their bodies so that they feel the beat. We stand up and dance and move in my classes. And when you’re holding a child and dancing or moving, they can feel the beat along with you. They’ll start to vocalize, babble, right? And the little ones will start to babble in like the key that we’re singing in.
Mandy York (11:13.039)
serving and returning that to the kids is something I always encourage.
That’s a positive reinforcement.
Yeah. Yeah. Just like, when your child says their first word, the first thing you do is you say it back to them and try to get them to say it again, back and forth, back and forth, mama, mama. Well, if they start babbling on the note that you just sang, do it back and forth, back and forth. Right? So those are the kinds of musical play that you can do with even the tiniest ones. so they get a little bit older.
They start walking there and they’re, they’re moving away from you now, maybe, right? They’re exploring the room, walking through the space. I always encourage families.
So now we’re talking, okay, so if they’re crawling, if they’re walking, if they’re walking, they’re probably older than one. Yep.
Mandy York (12:11.03)
Okay. Yes. So one to two now. Okay. I could spend a long time on each of these. I’m just going to kind of go through. Yes. So they’re moving, maybe they’re crawling, maybe they’re, they’re walking. My daughter was 18 months when she started walking. So, and they’re exploring more. And I think it’s very important that kids are allowed to experience in their own way. They have different personalities. They have different learning approaches, right?
the trunk
Mandy York (12:40.552)
And, and this is me coming from my experience and the music together philosophy. Right. so when we’re playing in class or you’re playing at home, I don’t expect kids to sit and watch and do what I’m doing. Okay. One to two, they’re not going to do that. Right. Maybe they they’re moving through the space. They’re moving around. if I give them an egg shaker, you know, and I’m tapping it on the floor, but they’re shaking it up high, of those things are okay.
Yes, because I am modeling caregivers. are modeling, you are singing the song, you are keeping the beat. the egg shaker example, they can see it. They can see you keeping the beat. They can hear it in your movements. Right. So that modeling is really, really important.
developmentally, while they may not do be doing the exact same thing with you with a shaker. They are using the shaker in a way that they think is fun. Yeah, interesting. Parallel. Yeah, right. Like, there’s no, there’s no necessarily recognition that
like someone who is more advanced, an adult, and playing with a shaker one way is quote unquote the right way to do it. It’s just using the shaker. And that’s as important as anything else.
Yes. Yep. No right and wrong, right or wrong. And truly the modeling is the most important. they’re even when you don’t realize it, they are hearing everything you’re doing, right? Right. Yep. They’re taking it in. and I mean, I’ve had parents get discouraged in these phases too. Like they’re just not interested or I don’t, you know, they don’t, or this is great. Like,
Mandy York (14:38.434)
They don’t do anything while we’re here in class, they do so much at home. Well, that’s fine. And that’s great because at home is where they’re comfortable. And if you are in a music class with the little ones, you should be making a lot of music at home, not just 45 minutes a week in class.
Okay, so zero to one, they’re feeling the beat with the parents. There’s like manipulation so that that’s encouraged. They’re mimicking sounds, right? And kind of matching pitch. One to two, they’re starting to independently experiment with these things.
I see a lot of experimenting here. One important thing we do in our classes is we sing on a vocable too, just a nonsense syllable. whether, I mean, we have a lot of songs that are written as vocable songs, but also I change songs with lyrics to vocable songs, know, row, row, row your boat. For example, I might just sing it on la la la la la. That’s an important,
really beneficial thing to do with the young toddlers because it allows them to focus on melody. So they’re learning language alongside everything else they’re learning right now. If you can remove language from the equation and just sing on a law, a nonsense, they’re able to focus more on the melody of the song.
Right, because there’s kind of three things happening. Number one is there’s the rhythm. Number two, there’s the pitch. The third thing is the much more complicated thing, which is different vowel and consonant sounds and syllables and like that kind of stuff, where they may not have those skills yet. But going back to what they can mimic is rhythm and pitch.
Mandy York (16:46.156)
Yep. Okay. Definitely. but then when we get into three and four, their language is starting to explode. Their language development, right? which is always exciting. And I hear a lot more singing in these kids, in three to four, not a huge leap between the one and two, as far as the kinds of activities that I give to my parents and, and encouraging class.
But they’ll you, you get more as you serve, you get a little bit more in return with this age group, right? and they’ll start to sing words. They’ll start to sing the ends of phrases. That’s always something you’ll hear first is them completing the end of a phrase. Maybe not the entire phrase, the beginning, but the end. they’ll start to sing some of those tonal patterns that, that we,
We do a call and response with total patterns in class. They’ll start to get those. they start to get a better sense of rhythm at this point. Maybe they’re only keeping a micro beat, but maybe they’ve been able to get onto a macro beat. and sometimes like four year olds rhythm is math, right? So if I’m, we’re doing rhythm patterns, a duple rhythm pattern, ba ba ba ba ba. Right. That’s four beats.
It’s not going to be more. It’s not going to be less that musically makes sense. And if they’ve been with us and this has been reinforced, they’re learning the language of music. You know what? Four years old. If you start just kind of improvising with them, you might get a rhythm pattern from the kids. That’s just four beats because they understand that’s what a sentence
inherently yes yes
Mandy York (18:39.616)
That’s really cool. that’s what’s to happen. So yeah, those things start to come out in this age group. And then the creativity to like, I am constantly encouraging my parents to be creative with music. Make up your own words, right? You know, the sillier the better, of course, there’s no wrong answers either. Like if your kid wants to sing about
the toilet or their new toothbrush, go for it. Like that’s what you do. Let them be creative and let them be part of the process and making the music. So that’s another step. That’s my three to four year olds.
Okay. Yeah.
And then I move on to elementary, really my five through seven year olds, which is a whole different thing. That’s not in my, my mixed age group.
Well, and yeah, and this is so let’s talk a little bit about this this age group Yeah in your classes, but this is also I think the age where parents start to think about if they haven’t done Music together or if they haven’t done any early childhood music classes. This might be the age Five six seven elementary age where parents start thinking about music lessons and
John Kozicki (20:04.664)
how to implement that. So let’s talk a little bit about that. And then I’ve got some thoughts to kind of share.
Yeah. Well, you want to talk about my K through second group? Yes. My, so my older kids, big kids K through second is when, caregivers are not in my classes. So I’m the primary model for the kids sending music home with them and encouraging them to, to play with it there and show their parents what they’re doing. But, this is the age where hopefully they’ve, they’ve got a pretty strong grasp on those.
basic skills of tonal and rhythm. And we play djembe drums. we do, you know, large movements. We like lightly choreographed, dances, musical games, stuff like that, where we’re using our entire body.
How is it mostly because it’s called rhythm kids you said use the gym base. Is it primarily focused on rhythms or is there any like is there focus on pitch. So it’s mostly is it mostly rhythm.
There’s focus on pitch, but it is rhythm based. Mostly rhythms and like each semester is like an animal theme. And so we will learn for a different animal theme with rhythms coming from different cultures and parts of the world. So, we’ll learn four patterns over the semester based on, know, on this animal. we, so we,
Mandy York (21:38.51)
I tell the kids we put it in our mouth first, we say it, right? Whatever it is, we put it in our mouths, ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba
That’s something that we don’t do with any, of the kids in our mixed stage classes, right? We’re just, we work on steady beat in that zero to five range. you know, and pitch and playing with music, but then when they get into kindergarten, I’m asking them to put a pattern in their hands.
Yeah, so this is where it’s a little bit more structured. Gotcha. Yep. Gotcha. Okay.
Yep, it is a little more structured, but you know, there’s a lot of creativity in it.
Well, but developmentally, I think kids can handle the structure at that point.
Mandy York (22:45.558)
Right. Yep. But then, you know, I, I try to get them to be leaders. Okay, you lead us on this one. Yeah. And you know, the drum roll at the end and when to cut off and Yeah. Yeah. deciding how to play this game and okay, everybody follow Jonah or whatever it might be. Gotcha. Okay.
Okay, so I don’t believe music together existed when I was a baby. I mean, maybe it did, but it’s.
They’ve been around just over 30 years. Okay. Not, everywhere, but.
When I was and not all of those students who we were talking about earlier who they’re paying, come in here and they just get it. Not all of them have done your, classes and music together. but I can definitely see with all of those things that you’re talking about, that is you’re really highlighting and encouraging those things at home.
Some families just naturally do that stuff at home. Yeah. I mean, for me, when I was with my, my daughter, even before she was born, we used to, I just put headphones on my wife’s belly and play songs every night. So I think for those families who, even if just listening to music, even if just, you know, having music being played around the house is an important thing, then kids pick that up.
John Kozicki (24:19.828)
So I can see how what you’re doing is encouraging that. I can see how kids can get that even just from being around music. Now, when we get to, but what I really want to talk about is, well, what about those students who maybe didn’t have music together classes? What about those students who are coming to lessons and maybe they’re
you know, maybe their families aren’t musical, but their parents just decided, you know what, I think music lessons are a good idea because I’ve heard all of these benefits that kids get from learning music and the kids eight years old and they just haven’t had any of that exposure. And then they come into lessons and the instructors like, man, this kid is hard to teach.
I now am understanding like, what if it’s simply because they just didn’t have that exposure at those important developmental stages? So.
as a private instructor who, you know, generally has a routine and like how you teach. I would say most of us don’t start by sitting that kid in your lap and moving their arms. Like you, right. Don’t do that. Like you would with or the later caregivers would in your classes with a six month year old.
Yeah, I know.
John Kozicki (26:00.0)
a six month old. So you had mentioned something about you’re talking with a mentor of yours who had a band instructor.
Yeah. Yes. Right. Yep. I remember being struck by this. one of the women, that I did my training with, over 10 years ago, for music together, she told a story about how she had a high school band director come in and take her training course for music together because his band students just didn’t have, you know, a steady beat in their feet. Yes.
asked to take the classes.
Mandy York (26:40.844)
And he wanted to go back to the basics. And we learned beat from the top down. A seven month old sits up and they kind of bob their torso. And then we start to clap our hands to a beat. And we know lot of, pretty much all of the adults you know can clap to the beat probably.
And yeah, and one of the first things that they have you do in middle school band is tap your foot. That’s the bottom. Yes.
tap your foot. Yeah. but if you don’t get to the feet, you, know a lot of grownups then that can clap their hands to a beat, but they cannot dance. They cannot dance. can’t move their feet to a beat. So that’s something we do in classes too. I didn’t mention before we’re all, every class we’re up putting beat in our feet. So this, yeah, this band director just, he went through the training, went back to the basics and
He took, I don’t remember what he called it. I think it was like kitty music time. Okay. High schoolers first 10 minutes of class, kitty music time. And he just, he practiced some of these things with some of the songs and different movements, going back to the basics, because if you enter a program like that or a, a music studio without this, these, you know, basic skills or
without any knowledge of the language of music. have to go back, I think, and get those before you can move forward.
John Kozicki (28:17.822)
Okay, so let’s say I’m not instructor and I’ve got a 10 year old student who’s never had any of this stuff and first things we want to focus on are rhythm, right? I mean, would you recommend like trying to clap first or I mean, would you recommend maybe they just bob their head? Yeah. the beat.
I mean, putting it somewhere in your body. think, you know, you a lot of percussionists will kind of tap their chest, put it there. I’ve that before. Tapping my chest so I feel the beat through my whole body. Tapping your knees. I mean, we do that a ton in class. I know I have a friend, she’s a piano instructor. Every single lesson, her part of that lesson is devoted to standing and moving to music. Okay, and putting it in your whole body.
Yeah, because I think the idea is if you are struggling with a student and you’re kind of thinking like, okay, well, maybe they didn’t have any of this stuff. I think to go right to the method book, say a kid is 10 years old. Well, they’re going to intellectualize it. Yeah. They’re going to try and math their way through it. They’re going to try and like study their way through it because that’s what they are kind of taught to do in school.
right to think it through. Which might only get them so far. But to sort of feel the beat. As you’re saying, right? I think going back to those basics and not in a baby way, right? But
before trying to push them through and understanding how to count rhythms and read rhythms and Math the rhythms and maybe just to kind of feel it first. Mm-hmm. Okay All right. Well now what about pitch?
Mandy York (30:08.834)
You can make that fun.
Mmm.
Yeah, so what do we do if, if the student is, is struggling with pitch or hearing the appropriate pitch?
Do all of your instructors sing in their lessons?
I would say most of them do not. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, and, know, instrumentally that’s, that’s a weird one because it’s not like singing where you are the instrument. You know, like if it’s a piano, you literally just, you know, you put your finger on the right note on the right key and there it is. That’s the correct pitch. so I think the rhythm is sort of more important at that point.
Mandy York (30:33.452)
Really? Yeah. Okay.
John Kozicki (31:02.542)
But yeah, what if it is? What if it is pitch?
Yeah, I think, I mean, I don’t know, I’m kind of biased. I’m a singer, but like, think everybody should be singing to their students and with their students. Yeah. Okay. I think that it’s a good, a good idea, a good practice.
I do think that even for any instrument.
It’s an argument for ear training, I think, to try and pitch match, like with your voice. Maybe not, you know, full on singing it, maybe humming it, but to try and pitch match so that like you can hear if you’re out of tune. You can hear if you’re playing the wrong note. I’m already like, I can see why you’d mentioned like
I’m all for singing.
John Kozicki (31:56.984)
parents don’t want to sing in classes sometimes. I am feeling just a little uncomfortable thinking about it right now. I can see why parents wouldn’t.
Singing is really personal. know, like it’s much more comfortable to kind of get behind an instrument and play it. And your eyes can just divert to the strings or the keys, right? But singing is really personal. But there is, and people think that they can’t sing. Everybody can sing. Like I said at the beginning, right? Everybody has the ability to do it. Probably a lot of grownups don’t have the practice and they
They can’t, they’ll have trouble singing in tune. But what I tell my grownups in class, my caregivers is that you can’t teach kids to sing out of when they’re, mean, when they’re really little, like as a model, you need to just sing, you need to just play. And I’m, getting back to my age group, but like when they see you doing that, they know it’s for them. Right. you can’t teach.
If you’re sitting in a lesson, a guitar lesson, I mean, you can just lay it out there. Okay, I know we’re not singers. We’re not singers, we’re guitarists. But like, we can sing and we’re musicians. So let’s sing through this just on a baa or a la. Okay, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but it’s a method. It’s a teaching method.
I know from myself, I hear what I want to play in my head before I play it. And in particular, when I’ve worked with guitar students on improvising solos or playing guitar solos, I really tell them, like, it’s really important that you can kind of hear what you’re playing in your head, either as you’re playing it or before you’re playing it, because that will translate to
John Kozicki (34:02.4)
you playing it the way that you want to play it. It’s basically like you’re visualizing what you want to do. Rather than just, you know, following a map. Yeah. Visualizing it. Okay, so I’ve got
Absolutely.
Mandy York (34:18.35)
It’s really interesting. Sorry. I haven’t thought about it because I mean, I’m the same way. hear that I hear it in my head and I don’t know what it’s like to not hear it.
I don’t either. So…
If you have a student that’s not hearing it, how do you develop that skill? Yeah. Maybe it’s singing, John. Maybe.
Yeah. I have an interesting takeaway.
What I’m kind of the the kind of conclusion I’m coming to is When you get a new student at say You know eight years old ten years old whatever that the parents are like nope never had any lessons before You you can take that at face value However some of those students have already practiced
John Kozicki (35:16.352)
Even though they’ve never had lessons, they’ve already practiced rhythms. They’ve already practiced pitch and ear training. Some of those students have been practicing that stuff since they could walk or before they could walk. Some of those students have not. You may not know until you start working with them, but I don’t know. I’m to go out on a limb here and say,
Well, those students who have practiced this stuff formally, informally, even though it’s their first lesson, those might be the students who pick stuff up quicker. Who are the students who are easier to teach? Those who have not practiced it as much or at all, and they come to lessons, those might be the students that we’re talking about that are a little bit more challenging to work with.
It’s not a lost cause.
And I would say it’s really important.
Yeah, exactly. think it’s super important to maybe understand that and recognize that because that’s going to change how you do that first lesson. Cause if you do the first lesson exactly the same for the kid who’s been practicing for 10 years, even those never had a lesson before versus the kid who hasn’t been practicing for 10 years. Well, you’re not going to get the same result. And I don’t think you should expect that you would get the same result, right? You have to kind of
John Kozicki (36:47.522)
go back to some basics with those students who have not practiced.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I want to clarify your practice. The way you’re using the word practice is practice was for the students that’s coming in for their first lesson was like dance parties in the kitchen at five and six years old moving to a beat. Yes. All that informal practice.
They’ve been using the language of music already. Because they’ve been using the language of music already, well now you’re just teaching them what they’ve been doing. Versus the kid who has not been using the language yet. You can’t just teach them what they’ve been doing because they haven’t been doing it.
Yep. They don’t have any background on this, this new language.
Yes, and I’m going to mention, I’ve mentioned this before, I think on, on the podcast, but I’m going to mention it one more time. Victor Wooten’s Ted talk music as a language because all of it relates to what you’re talking. So I’ll link that one in the show notes. this was super enlightening, Mandy. Thank you. Thank you. So,
Mandy York (37:52.959)
That is
John Kozicki (38:09.15)
I don’t you know, honestly, I think You know teach many private lessons anymore But this is one of those things that kind of flipped a light switch in my head and made me think like, okay Well, maybe that first lesson Does need to be different? Depending on who we’re working with. Yeah
It’s a neat mindset shift. Yeah. Yeah.
All right, well, thank you, Mandy. We’re gonna wrap this up and we’ll see you next time.
That’s good, thanks John.
Well there you have it. It sounds like those early years in development can actually impact how students learn. If you think we got it wrong, we’d love to hear from you or send us topic suggestions at info at RockSchoolProprietor.com. We’d always love to hear from you. We’ve put together some free resources for teachers and studio owners at RockSchoolProprietor.com also and there’s private Facebook group, performance based music programs and rock schools. Please join us.
John Kozicki (39:12.782)
there. I’m on social rock dot school dot proprietor on Instagram is where you find me John Kazicki on both LinkedIn and blue sky. Your ratings and reviews on Apple podcast and Spotify are always appreciated. Finally, if you enjoyed this show and gained insight from our conversation, we count that as a win. All we ask is that you pay it forward and please share the show with someone you think needs to hear it.
