On this episode of Rock School Proprietor Podcast, John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com welcomes friend and entrepreneur Chris Bates (Teacher Zone) for an insightful discussion on mindset and strategic planning. With rich experience in multiple industries, and co-owning Los Rios Rock School, Chris brings valuable insights into the world of business in the arts.
Listen as John and Chris discuss how mindset can impact success, the balance between working in and on your business, and how aligning your personal goals with your business aspirations can lead to genuine fulfillment. Drawing from personal stories and key lessons, they explore the importance of strategic planning and practical steps toward scaling your music lesson business while maintaining your passion and love for music.
Tune in for actionable advice and inspiration to craft a business and life you never want to retire from!
Join our private Facebook group, “Performance-Based Music Programs and Rock Schools,” a community for like-minded professionals to connect and share insights.
Download FREE resources for instructors and studio owners at RockSchoolProprietor.com
Episode Transcript:
John Kozicki (00:01.16)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor podcast. I’m John Kozicki and my co-host Mandy York cannot be with us today, but I’m happy to welcome my guest for this episode, Chris Bates. Chris, how are you today?
Chris Bates (00:16.096)
John, my brother, how are you? I’m great.
John Kozicki (00:17.768)
I’m doing well, I’m doing well. So gonna give our listeners who don’t know you a little bit of background. Chris, you are an entrepreneur. You’ve worked in and started companies in real estate and other industries. You are co-owner of Los Rios Rock School in California. You are the founder and co-owner of TeacherZone, correct?
which is a kind of an all-in-one studio management and learning management platform for lesson businesses. So I think some of our listeners may know you from that. I think that’s key with what we’re going to talk about today also, because with TeacherZone, one of the things you’re really doing is you’re kind of empowering studio owners to streamline their businesses.
to focus on bigger picture things rather than working in spreadsheets all day or tracking down payments. You’re a musician, you’re a drummer. I think you told me you taught drum lessons at a young age, but you kind of come to the lesson business from a different place in a lot of ways, I think. And that’s why I think you’re
your experience and your insight is so valuable because most studio owners come from first being a musician, then being a teacher, then opening their studio, and then becoming business owners. And I think what that does is that that puts you so close to everything in your business that it’s hard to sometimes see the big picture. So
That’s the intro. Am I missing anything? I mean, I’m sure I’m missing a lot of stuff.
Chris Bates (02:17.654)
Well, but husband and father, those are obviously what keeps me going and, you know, waking up every day and trying to give it my all. So got to say that I have two boys in college now. So we’re in that fun new phase. Actually, you know, it’s funny, John, is I feel I don’t know. You guys aren’t quite there yet, but
John Kozicki (02:24.417)
Yeah.
Chris Bates (02:47.222)
You know, I kind of feel like my 20, we feel like we’re in our twenties again, which has really been invigorated us with the businesses and stuff too, which is really fun. So yeah, it’s a new chapter. anyways, yeah, also happily married on 25 years this year.
John Kozicki (02:55.349)
Okay, interesting.
John Kozicki (03:01.943)
Congrats, congrats. So what I thought we would talk about, and the reason I wanted to talk with you is because, again, going back to the idea of how so many lesson studio owners and lesson business owners come to be owners is from kind of doing the thing that they ultimately are in charge of kind of.
hiring instructors to do or creating this bigger thing to provide the service. And where I think your insight would be really valuable is for people who are maybe in that solo teacher position right now and thinking they want to grow. Or maybe they do have a lesson studio that they’ve been running for a while and they want to grow it bigger. And you and I have talked
before on the phone and whatnot about like mindset. And I think a lot of that comes from being in the right mindset. And you had mentioned to me earlier, the concept of working in your business versus working on your business. And that comes from, I mean, where I heard it was the E-Myth, correct?
Chris Bates (04:24.468)
Yes, Michael Gerber. And I heard it years ago before I had read the E-Myth. I was also on the board in an entrepreneurs organization for 10 years, which is a great organization because I always say it’s AA for business owners. It’s a way for business owners to get together and just mind share on challenges and stuff. And one of my dear friends who now lives in North Carolina, Tony Wong, he
John Kozicki (04:35.671)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (04:42.029)
You
Chris Bates (04:53.014)
We call him Yoda because he’s so smart and he mentioned that to us, you the inverse is on and he also said something that we were like, what he’s like, you know, basically that we weren’t real business owners, that we were lifestyle business owners for the most part, which was interesting to me that he had made a distinction between the inverse is on and the lifestyle business versus actual business owner. And so
John Kozicki (05:11.829)
Mmm.
Chris Bates (05:22.454)
We can define that, you know, for listeners as well, just to sort of so it gives us perspective because it was kind of hit us all. he’s right. How I see myself may not be actually how I behave.
John Kozicki (05:36.242)
Interesting. Yeah. And so to kind of expand on the lifestyle business thing, I would say that, I mean, I know for me personally, and I would guess that for most studio owners, part of why we do this is our passion for the craft, our passion for music, our passion for sharing that. Right. So we want to still have that as part of our lives.
But it’s the old trope, right? Like if you make a business out of your hobby, well, are you still gonna love the hobby, right? Because then it becomes your job. There’s the rub with the lifestyle business, right?
Chris Bates (06:20.564)
Right, many chefs still cook at home?
John Kozicki (06:23.241)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I wanted to, I’m gonna share a story with you to sort of set this up, the idea of what does it mean to work in your business versus working on your business? And you had mentioned to me the idea of like strategic planning and I think you know this about me, but the Michigan Rock School is actually my second venture, my second music school.
I started my first music school when I lived in North Carolina. And before I started, I had this big vision of what I wanted to do. I wanted to have this really cool interactive experience for students. I wanted to focus on performances and bands, offering that as a main service, but also paired with private lessons. When I started the business, it was just me. I rented a single
single room and after a few months I was like, okay, if I’m going to make this vision a reality, I need a bigger space. I have to hire some other instructors because I can’t do everything myself. So I did that. And again, my goal was to create this larger thing. So as soon as I got that bigger space and I hired that other instructor,
Really quick, I realized like, my gosh, my rent is higher. I’ve got to make sure that I can pay for this rent and I’ve got to make sure my instructors are being compensated. I’ve got to get some more students in here. And the quickest way to do that was to get more private lesson students. And every step along the way,
as I made a growth, some sort of like step towards growth, I kind of fell back to this idea of like, I got to get this many more private students, right, to finance this next thing. And it kind of became this little trap where I was so focused on getting the private students because I needed them to finance the next big step. I never really realized what I wanted to do with the big picture.
John Kozicki (08:49.107)
So ultimately I ran that business for about five years, moderately successful with the bands, but definitely not what I wanted it to be. Started Michigan Rock School and the first thing I did was I sat down and I thought, what were those traps that I fell into that prevented me from creating this amazing band program? And the realization was,
Chris Bates (09:08.022)
Hmm.
Chris Bates (09:13.482)
Brilliant.
John Kozicki (09:18.025)
Well, was just, was, I was collecting private lesson students just to finance what I wanted to do. It didn’t matter if they were the right students. It didn’t matter if they were interested in this bigger picture, which was the interaction, the community and the bands. So I made a conscious effort when I started Michigan Rock School, the second venture, not to fall into that trap. And I knew it might meant slower growth, but it was going to result in
the realization of this bigger picture. So I took a strategic plan.
John Kozicki (09:57.421)
What do think?
Chris Bates (09:58.71)
I love it! That’s well and the fact that you learn from your mistakes I mean I’ve repeated mine too many times, so good for you!
John Kozicki (10:06.093)
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I’ve done that too.
Chris Bates (10:12.064)
We always look kind of gravitate towards what feels comfortable. And I think that’s true. And you actually articulated one of the biggest problems of being in business at all is, you know, doing the business. It’s like as soon as there’s business to do, then it becomes much harder to have vision or, you know, create something that’s more in alignment, maybe with what you hope to at the beginning.
John Kozicki (10:29.89)
Yes.
Chris Bates (10:41.376)
You get so busy basically. You know it’s a it’s a bandwidth issue really. We all only have so much bandwidth and it’s chronic. mean you know listen that if you guys haven’t read the E myth Michael Gerber it’s the entrepreneurial myth. It’s a great book because it really talks about all of us in the lesson business everybody that teaches music. You pretty much are doing what he talks about which is that the business owners of the world.
John Kozicki (10:42.989)
Sure.
Chris Bates (11:10.642)
as we all kind of start out as small businesses, we’re basically taking a talent or a skill that we had or something that we are really passionate about. And then we’re turning that into a business, initially a lifestyle business. So all of us start this way typically. I mean, it’s rare that you don’t unless that you’re like in my case, my seventh business. So I’m finally thinking this way like you did where you, you know, it’s like the more you do it, the more you’re like, okay, you know.
John Kozicki (11:35.805)
Mm-hmm. Right, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.
Chris Bates (11:39.766)
But all of us start that way. You know, I started that way with my first band in Hollywood and that morphed into owning real estate offices later on because I wasn’t bright enough to figure out how to have the music career I desired. I actually forgot that I used to teach.
John Kozicki (12:00.855)
Ha ha.
Chris Bates (12:01.75)
It’s just so ironic now because I’m so involved in teaching day to day with my staff and everybody. Yeah. And I forgot how much I loved it, too. Like, it’s such a special. And I think that’s the gift, really, of the music industry changing from selling records, you know, to the digital is it’s so much harder to make money off your music that I feel like the youth have really benefited. I’ll bet more kids are being mentored now than, you know, 30 years ago by far.
John Kozicki (12:15.447)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (12:32.023)
Hmm, interesting.
Chris Bates (12:33.554)
So it’s actually in a neat way, more people will be playing because of it. More people will be enjoying music and transforming others because of it, which is just, I love.
John Kozicki (12:45.997)
Well, OK, and you were talking about the the E myth. And one point that I think I want to clarify is in the E myth, Gerber talks about three categories, right? He talks about the I believe it’s the the technician, right? The is it the manager and the is the entrepreneur? Yeah. And I think we all come to.
Chris Bates (13:08.788)
Entrepreneur. Yep.
John Kozicki (13:14.113)
come to these businesses as the technician who decides, okay, I’m gonna also take on the role of the manager and dip my toe in the water of the entrepreneur possibly, right? Yeah. And.
Chris Bates (13:21.462)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (13:26.75)
Right. So basically, we all start out as the technician. The question is, how much do you carry of your technician side? So in other words, let’s say you’re an incredible guitar teacher or incredible vocal coach. You know, do you always maintain that part of your business where you’re still a technician or do you transition out of it?
And what most people do that he that he talks about, which is the whole working in is that we get so caught up in the day to day that we’re essentially stuck. And so we’re stuck. We’re still a technician and we’re trying to do some managerial, which would be like systems and managerial tasks are is basically like keeping people accountable, training staff, systems, playbooks, operating procedures, things like that.
John Kozicki (14:08.151)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (14:23.412)
And then entrepreneur would be more growth minded, vision, big picture, that kind of thing. So what we try to do is we try to stuff it all into this working in your box. But if you’re teaching, you know, for a lot of people, 30 hours a week, doing those other things is exhausting. Right. But let’s be realistic.
John Kozicki (14:42.369)
Yes.
John Kozicki (14:47.549)
Mm-hmm. And that’s exactly where I was in my story. I was teaching. I realized like, I just gave myself another job, which is being a manager also. And I didn’t stop teaching. I kept teaching because again, I need to grow this thing. need to get more students. I need to finance the next steps. So I took on two jobs without that
that third aspect of the strategic planning, which is the entrepreneurial aspect.
Chris Bates (15:22.582)
I mean, of us do. mean, you know, listen, for you to for any of you out there listening to this that have your own thing, whether it’s just you or you have multiple teachers and stuff, you’re different. You just are. lot of people just don’t are so risk averse. They will never put themselves basically in that vulnerable position is the reality. And so bravo to anyone listening to this that, you know,
John Kozicki (15:34.327)
Yes.
John Kozicki (15:46.189)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (15:50.688)
has the courage because it takes courage. And I believe that all entrepreneurs are heroes. So whether you’re a solopreneur or whether you have a bigger business, arbitrary, because you might be a solopreneur making more money than someone with a bigger business. And to me, money at the end of the day, a lot of it is about impact. It’s a metaphor for helping people. So with that said, I think the important distinction with working in versus on is that it can’t be neglected.
John Kozicki (16:03.799)
Sure.
Chris Bates (16:20.25)
on your business. So flying 10,000 feet and being more strategic, thinking about the future, that kind of thing that can’t be neglected. But if you want to maintain your technician status because you really enjoy it or you enjoy the income because you can have an higher income. This is a distinction that I want to make for anybody that hasn’t thought about this. So the higher up the chain you get towards entrepreneur, you don’t actually have a job.
by the time you become a full entrepreneur, right? You now are more akin to an investor, right? Where basically you’re not required for the business to operate.
John Kozicki (16:57.611)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (17:01.143)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (17:02.57)
The Lord on the chain to go for technician you you’re involved in everything and so it feels good because you’re involved in everything but it’s stressful you’re out of time you know and this is where people tend to get stuck and that’s where lifestyle businesses tend to just be about you and your lifestyle because you just use your it’s probably a time thing if I’m if I’m nice to all of us it probably is just that you get so stuck time wise you just don’t have time to ever.
John Kozicki (17:20.663)
Yeah.
Chris Bates (17:31.36)
transition in any way. So the discussion today in my mind is just to sort of lay it out there. So all of us can realize that, hey, if you want to still teach guitar, like, and that’s really all you’re passionate about. I’ve seen a lot of amazing businesses around the world still do that, but they’ve been able to grow because they delegated the entrepreneurial or the management tasks to others. And that’s okay.
John Kozicki (17:48.14)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (17:57.205)
Right, right. So, so I think that that’s super important to get right like you’re not saying you have to choose between being a teacher or being a manager or being the big picture person and guiding the business. You’re not saying you have to choose between one of those three. You can choose how much of each bucket.
you want to allocate your time, right? If you want to teach one day a week because you love it and you’re passionate about it and then you want to focus the rest of the week on managing and big picture stuff, you can. You might need some help.
Chris Bates (18:43.478)
Aren’t you? Didn’t you say you’re still teaching some groups?
John Kozicki (18:46.931)
I teach, I still teach one group every week because I love getting in there with the students and working with them. And I think that also helps me to sort of understand when I see how I do that, I can help my instructors and my other band coaches with their training. But yeah, that’s a choice that I made to continue to do this.
and I didn’t have to give it up completely. I can make the rules. Again, this is like, I think where a trap.
Chris Bates (19:24.778)
Yeah, that’s where, you know, when I said lifestyle earlier, used to, in my mind, it used to, I saw it kind of bad because I’m like, that just means small. And it’s like, no.
John Kozicki (19:33.143)
Well, because your friend called it not a real business, right?
Chris Bates (19:37.654)
And so, but over the years I’ve seen it differently in that I think all of us at the end of the day, it’s about survival initially, and it’s about survival in a way that we’re passionate about, right? So it’s like, wow. Cause that’s why everyone, let’s face it, if you’re listening to this, just know that people in your life are probably jealous of you because you’re living a lifestyle they wish they could, you know? And so that is awesome. And bravo for anybody that, that is able to
John Kozicki (19:48.684)
Yes.
John Kozicki (19:55.435)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Chris Bates (20:06.772)
you know, make a business out of their passion. The simple question, though, is that if something were to happen to any of us, you know, would the business continue or is it predicated on us? Now, does it have to? No, you could just have a business that is, you know, the John show and that’s it. And you just delegate around you some tasks for marketing and sales and an administration, all that around your business, around your teaching and.
John Kozicki (20:17.121)
Right.
John Kozicki (20:34.421)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (20:35.382)
That’s a way to do it. And there’s nothing right or wrong about any of the ways. It’s how do you want your life to look? And so basically thinking big picture allows you to make those decisions. What do you want it to look like?
John Kozicki (20:49.525)
I love that. So I want to, I’ve long felt that there is a misconception in, I mean, in business, but in definitely in our lesson businesses also surrounding growth and how to measure growth. Now there are obviously like really simple metrics to measure growth. How many students did I, did I,
How many more students do I have this month versus last month? Right? How much more revenue am I making? which are absolutely valid. And I think those can, those could and should come into the conversation, but what is the cost associated with that? Right? If you are all of a sudden working four days a week, 12 hour days, you know, or five days a week or six days a week,
Right? Is that the kind of growth that you want?
And I think the perception is like, well, yeah, we measure growth by student numbers, but that’s where it gets tricky. Is your life better for that growth or are you basically trading like more of your time to see that growth? And so that’s the expense.
Chris Bates (22:12.139)
Right?
Chris Bates (22:19.882)
Yeah, mean, in my, in the middle of my career when I owned a global software company called Agent Marketing and I owned a printing operation and we had staff all over the world and all this stuff. It was kind of what I had dreamed for. And then I looked in the mirror and like, I was like, my gosh, like I’m never good to see my kids. I’m never home. Like, so the sacrifice it’s like, be careful what you wish for.
John Kozicki (22:35.437)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (22:47.106)
Yeah.
Chris Bates (22:47.326)
I got what I had dreamed for and it wasn’t what I thought. And when I sold that company, I’ll never forget. sat down with my now a freshman in college son, Hudson and Hudson’s a little redhead, you know, and that the time he had that gravelly little voice. And we’re shooting hoops outside and I’m like, your dad’s thinking about selling the company. And he’s like, really? Why dad? And, know, and I’m like, so I can hang out with you. And so we’re, we’re playing.
John Kozicki (22:57.409)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (23:14.398)
And then he grabs the ball about halfway through and he looks at me and he goes, bottom line, we’re to see you more or what? I’m like, you just made my decision for me. Like, wow. You know, so.
John Kozicki (23:20.673)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (23:27.245)
I love that, I love that question. Because I wanna give examples. To me, when you said that, that’s growth, right? That’s growth, not necessarily in terms of like I made this many more sales, but you looked at personal growth, you looked at how much personal time you’re gaining, right? So that is a measure of growth.
Right? If you’re working six days a week and you say, I want to work five days a week by the end of this year. I don’t think that should be looked at as, well, yeah, it’s cutting back. And that’s what we think about. We think about I’m cutting back, right? But that there is a gain there. There that is growth. If you are able to look, look at your business and make a plan so that, okay, by the end of this year, I’m going to work five days a week.
by the middle of next year, I’m gonna work four days a week. By the end of next year, I’m gonna work three days a week, right? If you can maintain your lifestyle and those are your gains, that counts as growth.
Chris Bates (24:28.02)
Yes, great way to look at it. Yeah.
Chris Bates (24:43.04)
My, my old business part, I’m sorry, my, Tyler and I had a coach, the, last number of years, his name is Dan Martell and, Dan is a big coach out there and he wrote a book called buy back your time. And that’s a big part of it. Right. And Dan has a quote that I now totally embody and love and the quote, I’ll butcher it, but basically it’s, what did he say?
John Kozicki (24:58.029)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (25:10.868)
Well, having, this is on working on your business, having, having others do the work 70 % as good as you is a hundred percent freaking awesome. And so the buyback, your time mentality is like, you know, what are the tasks that you may not be great at? What are the tasks that have to get done regardless that, that you
John Kozicki (25:27.101)
Hmm. So.
Chris Bates (25:40.424)
Isn’t your superpower the best use of your time and how can you get them done? It doesn’t have to be hiring someone. It could also be utilizing tools or systems. It could be using fractional professionals, you know, like bookkeepers in a fractional way or things like that. The question is, is that how can you delegate those tasks that aren’t the best or like you said, maybe that’s not best. Maybe it’s just you don’t want to spend your time on
John Kozicki (26:10.081)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Bates (26:12.97)
like I’m good at it I don’t want to do it though that’s okay
John Kozicki (26:16.925)
So that’s all related, yeah, and that’s all related to growth, that’s all related to strategic planning.
Chris Bates (26:23.668)
And the other thing with growth to just to something that you made me think of when you mentioned it. So you can grow like you said, you could say, hey, I’m growing because I’m buying back my personal time. That’s a growth. Absolutely. Great distinction. Another growth to think about in lesson business isn’t that you are going to keep growing to infinity like some businesses try to do. It’s more, can you create a sustainable business? Because if you think about Disney,
John Kozicki (26:34.637)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (26:53.236)
I don’t know if you’ve seen him, but there is a on the Disney channel. There’s some cool things where they actually show you how they made the rides.
John Kozicki (26:59.924)
I haven’t seen those.
Chris Bates (27:00.788)
Yeah, my wife and I binged him recently and it was like, this is so cool. But one of the things that he was big on was people returning to the park. So it’s same customer. Right. It’s not like growth growth. It’s literally just our version of a student coming back all the time, you know, for a number of years. And so his mindset was, well, we better always. He actually said that over and over. The one thing you’ll know at Disney anytime you see Disney on it is you’ll know that we’re always trying to get better. Something like that. We’re always
John Kozicki (27:11.639)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (27:30.59)
Every time you come, we’re going to try and have it be a little bit different. So he was trying to inspire people to want to have the experience over and over again as they put, you know, different nuggets here and there and different changes. So so the two Disney fans are looking for those things all the time. Right. And it becomes so growth can also be that it can be sustainability because with inflation, you know, I’m not an economist, but.
John Kozicki (27:33.623)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (27:47.627)
Yeah.
Chris Bates (27:57.47)
Bottom line with inflation is it’s an erosion, right? It’s like everything’s eroding if you don’t maintain it. And so economic inflation is roughly three to three to 4 % always. I mean, it fluctuates, but on over a 30 year period, I think the average is that three and a half, 4%. So that means that every year, if you’re not looking at ways to increase your value so you can up your prices along with inflation,
John Kozicki (28:02.957)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (28:26.526)
ways to keep having new students come in as old students graduate potentially. If you’re working with kids, you’ve got like a built in churn because they’re going to leave you when they graduate. So knowing that growth for a lot of us is being able to maintain is to get to a certain level where we can enjoy our work and make a great impact and then maintain it.
John Kozicki (28:36.011)
Yes. Right.
John Kozicki (28:53.527)
So question, now because again, this is, we kind of ventured into the area of growth, but it’s still all related to that planning. And yeah, what advice or what resources or thoughts would you offer, again, to that person who maybe is…
Chris Bates (29:04.0)
Hmm. Yes. Working in versus on is all about that strategic planning.
John Kozicki (29:19.753)
a solo instructor thinking like, I want to make this thing bigger. My advice first is figure out why. define that. Why do you want to make it bigger? What like, what does that look like to you? Or maybe that person who is in the studio and they want to grow. What is your advice to figure out like, okay, well, how do I define what I want this to be? How do I take, how do I, how do I develop a
Chris Bates (29:46.101)
Yes.
John Kozicki (29:48.845)
plan so that I can take steps toward that.
Chris Bates (29:53.334)
So off the top of my head, there’s five things. I was thinking about this and I’m like, okay, what are the five things? Because lists are awesome. They forced us to. What are the five things that we could all kind of focus on for working on our business? Because working in your business, like just so you know, that parent that just called because their kid’s sick or that teacher that just told you they have a gig last minute and they can’t come in or whatever.
John Kozicki (30:06.637)
Yeah
John Kozicki (30:23.155)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris Bates (30:23.22)
That is working in your business, okay? The tuition that didn’t go through, the bill that you can’t pay because you haven’t gotten paid yet, that’s the kind of working in your business stresses. You know, it’s the billing stuff, the scheduling stuff, the parent communication stuff. It’s the staff stuff. It’s all of it. So the five things to know that you’re working on your business, strategy.
John Kozicki (30:32.662)
Right.
John Kozicki (30:45.794)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (30:52.032)
So we’ve talked and we could talk about all five, but strategy, basically thinking about the future, not just about in the right now. Number two, simple simplification. So it’s about being focused and simple in your business practices because then it’s repeatable. I say this all the time to folks. I’m like, listen, we have people come to us and they’re so complex. And I’m like, so just understand when you’re creating a business, if the more complex you are, the more you need a human.
John Kozicki (30:58.465)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (31:20.244)
The more simple you are, the more systems and robots and computers can take over. So simplicity is big. So strategic simplify sales, sales and marketing. I now I’m realizing this in all iteration, all this is step. The fourth one would be staff. Like so in other words, staff development, training, that kind of stuff. And then the last one is we could figure out an S for it, but basically brand.
John Kozicki (31:35.415)
haha
John Kozicki (31:50.401)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (31:50.698)
versus it just being about you. And this is a hard one, especially for if you’re a musician that’s been celebrated, because a lot of you out there have had great careers or done great things. And so you’ve got a name or you were in a band with a name or you’ve done something wonderful. Just know that the more we can make the brand bigger than ourselves, the more opportunities we create for our customers, our students and for our staff. So the five things strategic, simplify, sales,
staff growth and then brand. With that. I was watching every job. I’m addicted to those kitchen nightmares and like bar rescue and all that stuff. And I’m watching one the other night and I was like, my gosh, this is like every music school owner I know. She. She owns a southern restaurant.
John Kozicki (32:35.549)
yeah, uh-huh.
Chris Bates (32:49.782)
And Ramsey stand there he can’t believe it. Like that it’s actually as bad as they said it was. She won’t let her chefs do anything. They’re standing there staring at her and she’s like, don’t get out of the way. I got it. No, get out of the way. I got it. No, get out of the way. got it. And so we all say that metaphorically, like I’m too I’m too involved. I’m trying to do too much. I’m too whatever. She was like the extreme version where she literally had staff just standing there watching her the whole shift because she just was trying to do everything.
John Kozicki (32:54.967)
Okay?
John Kozicki (32:58.989)
yeah.
John Kozicki (33:05.165)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (33:10.017)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (33:15.917)
Yeah. That’s like your… Yeah.
Chris Bates (33:19.796)
That is the ultimate in your business. You’re so in it that you just aren’t at all on it. And to me, that is toxic. She needs to either delegate the on stuff or create what you and I were saying more of a hybrid approach.
John Kozicki (33:35.789)
Right, that’s, like I know I’m a bit of a perfectionist. I’ve fallen into that too, right? So that’s what you saying about your, I don’t know if it was your mentor or your coach who said someone else doing it at 70 % as good as you can is 100 % awesome, right? So yeah, it’s not gonna be like you do it, but it’s also like, you know,
Chris Bates (33:50.24)
having 70.
John Kozicki (34:05.453)
Quick story, I was training one of my band instructors, having him sit in on the band. I was coaching a couple weeks ago, and the kids were rowdy. They were out of control, right? And I kinda lost it. I yelled at him, and I was like, this is what we gotta do. We gotta do this, we gotta get this done. So much so I was like, all right, I gotta step out of the room, because I know I’m not being effective right now. I stepped out of the room.
And the new band coach, he got it under control. I didn’t have to go back in there. So where my head is like, I’m in here because I have to train him. I have to show how it’s done. I have to show him how to do this thing the way that I do it so that then he can do it. He’d already figured it out. You know, he had a better handle. He had a better handle on him. Yes.
Chris Bates (34:54.928)
Right. They’ll surprise you. We have that right now. Our director, Phil, is so much better than Tyler and me in that way because Tyler and I, you know, are very passive aggressive. Like we both have a similar personality and we just expect it to be done a certain way. And so we won’t say anything, assuming it is. And then eventually we’ll realize it isn’t. And then we lose our cool. And, you know, that’s a terrible way to.
John Kozicki (35:05.953)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (35:19.234)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (35:23.284)
you know, help people grow and learn. So Phil, on the other hand, is just this genius, gentle soul that’s brilliant. And he is so good at what just like you said, at. We would have approached it from a much harsher standpoint. He’ll approach it from a from a loving standpoint and actually get more and better effect than we will with the staff. So let’s go through each of these real quick. The first one is strategize.
Bottom line, guys, you got to fly 10,000 feet. got to. So what I like to do, for instance, is right now what we’re doing at Los Rios is we’re planning out. We should have done it last year, but we’re getting better at it. We tend to we tend to plan for months, so we do four month cycles. Right. So we’re always good at that. What we haven’t been good at, to be honest, is we haven’t been good at executing the full one year plan, you know, just because we’re so in it still.
John Kozicki (36:08.525)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (36:15.831)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (36:19.99)
So even though it’s a goal for us, so we talked the other day and it’s like, okay, let’s be a little bit better. Now we’re about six months planned and it’s like, let’s just get the rest of the year on the calendar and the rest of the year plan. We know, but we don’t have it written down. So write it down, strategize, think about the future. One of the greatest gifts that I can give to any of us is do a one, three, five, 10 year plan. I even have my boys do this because it just puts in perspective. What would I want it to look like in a year? Okay.
John Kozicki (36:44.161)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (36:49.546)
What do want to look in three years? Cool. Ten years. Now you’re thinking totally differently, right? Because you’re like at a different place in your life, too, if you really think about it. so anyway, strategy is fly 10,000 feet and give yourself that gift of planning. And ideally, if you can plan for six a year out fully with your operation. So that way you take a lot of the both your.
John Kozicki (36:54.133)
Right.
Yeah.
Chris Bates (37:15.424)
Cut your families and your staff will thank you for it because everybody loves Claire.
Chris Bates (37:23.518)
So number two, simplify, keep it simple, stupid. They did studies that when you go to the supermarket, they had a bunch of teas that like I love a celestial seasonings or something like it. And they had like 30 teas and it was beautiful. And they were like, you know, buy two, get one, whatever the bite to get one worked. But people still had a hard time deciding when they narrowed it to just a few options.
John Kozicki (37:37.119)
huh.
Chris Bates (37:53.066)
They sold out of T because then it was like really easy when I only have four or five options. I can do that when I have 12. can’t so simplify things. The one mistake I see for most small lesson class business folks is you come into it thinking you have to have all these crazy rules. Remember this you’re making it up. Anyways, you might as well make it up good make it up simple.
John Kozicki (37:54.775)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (38:15.981)
Right, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (38:20.938)
The simpler the better and you tell your customers the rules not vice versa. We do not do make-ups at our school. We’re going on 15 years as a school. We have 8000 square feet to recording studios 13 teaching offices three rehearsals spaces and a stage and we’ve done all that without doing a make-up. So you don’t have to do them. We do however do I use our make-ups for teachers when they miss but we try to make those up before they miss.
John Kozicki (38:41.655)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (38:49.994)
So often teachers will let us know I’m going on tour in three months for a month. So we’ll do those make-ups way before they leave, if we can. But you know, you get to make up your rules. We made that rule up. So you make them up.
John Kozicki (38:56.141)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (39:02.241)
So simplify, it’s easier for the clients to understand what’s going on, also easier to teach other people to do these things so that you don’t have to enforce all these crazy rules. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Bates (39:12.726)
Bam. Then staff development becomes easier by default. You’re exactly right. That’s, yeah. Number three, I have sales and marketing, and I don’t want to go down that wormhole as much. You and I can go down the staff wormhole. But that wormhole bottom line, guys, everybody says, I just work on referrals. Really? Because if you just work on referrals, you’re either teeny.
Or you’re a master marketer and you’re pretending like you just work on referrals because to get those referrals takes effort. It means you have to actually cultivate your past and current customers. It means you have to be involved in the community. It means you probably have to do articles and SEO and things. It means that you probably at some point have some sort of community outreach or ads or connection to the local schools or
you’re creating once in a lifetime moments for students that then people talk about newspapers write about. Anyways, you just can’t have a business in a vacuum. You have to make sure that you have a way that you’re connecting with others about your business. And so, you know, just know that you have to get that part handled. If you’re not good at it or you don’t want to deal with it, like most of us just know that there’s tons of tools out there. There’s
myriad of not only tools, but agencies that will work for very inexpensive, you know, and just take us like 8 % of your ad revenue. So let’s say you’re gonna spend a thousand or two thousand a month. They’re just gonna take a little fee to help you run those ads.
John Kozicki (40:45.549)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (40:55.661)
Or a mom in your studio who used to work in marketing public relations and maybe wants to trade. You never know, right? Well, I’ve done it with other things, yeah. Mandy mentioned on a previous episode that all of her photos that she has in her studio, she’s never paid for them. She’s never paid a photographer. She’s done all in trade with parents who are in her studio.
Chris Bates (41:03.53)
Have you done that?
That’s brilliant.
Chris Bates (41:23.126)
Tyler did it with me. I’ve been Tyler and I have, you know, Los Rios 15 years old. We’ve been officially partnered up for almost 11 of those 15 years, but I was there from the very beginning. Day one when Tyler started teaching, I owned a print shop. I was Tyler’s drummer in his band, so I would love that he was doing it. So I’m printing stuff for him. And it wasn’t just me. He had our friend Damien doing stuff. He had all of us because we were rallying around our friend. And so if you’re starting out,
John Kozicki (41:34.925)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (41:50.892)
Yeah.
Chris Bates (41:52.95)
people will rally around you because everyone loves the arts and everybody wants to support us. So yeah, that’s a big one. I love that. that’s sales and marketing. Don’t neglect it. Just know it has to be done regardless. So you might as well have friends, family, you, whoever help, but get her done. Another thing of working on the last two would be staff and brand. So the staff thing, you’re an amazing trainer and coach.
John Kozicki (41:58.071)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (42:22.55)
to your staff and I know that’s been really important to you. So do you wanna just talk a little bit about that?
John Kozicki (42:30.277)
that’s a hard one. I will talk about training. one thing that I, I, it took me a long time to learn is if I don’t have at least an outline when it comes to training new staff, I’m starting from the beginning every single time. Right? So, so when I realized like, man, I’m always going to have to hire new instructors.
maybe I should write this down. All these things that I tell them, maybe I should have an outline and then maybe I should have a few bullet points for each of those outline points. And then, hey, you know what, maybe I should just record this interaction that I’m having with this new hire. So that way when I have another new hire next time, I’ve got like a resource that I can give them in the front end rather than have to recreate all of this. Yeah.
Chris Bates (43:30.166)
Brilliant. I mean, we did that with our audition requirements. We recorded them and put them in teachers on like 10 years ago. We’re still assigning the same audition. We made a couple tweaks to them, but overall the same audition requirements for all five instruments for every season for advanced intermediate and beginner. We’ve codified it.
John Kozicki (43:37.495)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (43:51.649)
Yeah, well, and the reason I didn’t do it in the front end was because I didn’t like to do it. You know, I didn’t want to have to take time out of what I already was doing to do this task, which is train a new hire, right?
Chris Bates (44:06.324)
You bought back your time by creating a system. And I love the term playbook or SOPs, standard operating procedures. Playbook, though, to me is exciting because it’s more in action. You’re creating a playbook of how to train a teacher or how a teacher should see things to work in your organization. And we did that, for instance, with our tours. We like to do in-person tours for families and because we found that it really helps retention. So.
John Kozicki (44:09.256)
Yeah, yeah.
John Kozicki (44:20.172)
Yes.
John Kozicki (44:29.975)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (44:35.072)
for us trials haven’t been as successful as the tours. So, but we decided like I did them for years, Tyler did them for years and then we’re like exhausted about it. So then we had Phil start doing them and then if Phil got over it. then Phil and I created, we basically just codified Tyler, my and Phil script in one. And now that script is being taught to advanced students. And now we have students doing it.
John Kozicki (44:48.557)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (44:58.719)
Amazing, amazing. Yeah.
Chris Bates (45:02.058)
So yeah, so staff meetings are big. For those of you that have contractors, that’s fine. You can figure out however complies with that. like, I like employees because then we can. So we have, I have Monday operations meetings with our school staff. Then we have a once a month with the whole staff teachers and everybody. And then we do workshops typically quarterly where literally on the stage we’ll have teachers like one of our teachers, Shreya, she’s done lots of workshops with the teachers about how to connect more with students.
about how to run a better group class, about how to make people listen more, how to ask better questions. So just ongoing staff training, ongoing, making sure that they’re feeling like they’re part of something that goes back to what we talked about earlier with the first one was strategize. Because if you already know ahead of time, then you can plan to have a nice speaker come in and work with your people. But if you don’t know ahead of time, right? You’re never going to like look for the right person to come do it. so
John Kozicki (45:31.639)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (45:54.039)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (45:58.688)
Right, right.
Chris Bates (46:00.468)
And then the last one is brand and I’m not a brand expert. I’m way too self-conscious to be a good branding. Tyler’s better at that than I am my partner. But the reality with brand is that it isn’t about me. It is about you. It’s about Michigan Rock School. It’s about Los Rios Rock School.
John Kozicki (46:12.183)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (46:21.547)
Right, although like going back to the idea of the solo instructor who doesn’t want to hire anyone else, it can be about that person, right? It can be, but in that instance, if what your goal is is to just be that solo instructor, then maybe you want to farm that out. Maybe you want to find someone else who like understands what you are about that can present it to you and say like, okay, this is what I think you’re about.
Chris Bates (46:27.946)
Yeah.
Good point. Good point.
John Kozicki (46:51.147)
That’s a, I think that’s a good instance to…
Chris Bates (46:53.706)
Yes, and that’s brilliant because then also you can by having someone else help. It’s a lot easier for someone else to talk about you. So, yeah, you’re right. Either way, your brand, even if it is you. So so I misspoke when it isn’t about us as far as being when we’re talking about building a community.
John Kozicki (47:02.572)
Yes.
John Kozicki (47:20.407)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bates (47:21.544)
You can have your name on everything. You can be a big part of it or whatever. But at the end of the day, the community will, you know, make it bigger than just you doing the work. So I guess when I say it isn’t about me, it’s because I think in terms of community, right, I think in terms of like the impacts we’re having on students that I’ve never even met potentially or something, you know, and the other thing you think about with brand is that
John Kozicki (47:33.079)
Yes.
Chris Bates (47:52.18)
the when when a family does refer you. I mean, even if you’re a solopreneur and you’re getting lots of referrals, I think of my my drum teacher growing up, he was a solopreneur and he was awesome. But he got tons of referrals because he made us all. I guess he had his brand that wasn’t quite articulated, but we saw it a certain way. We saw a person that was deeply invested in his students.
We saw a person that wanted his students to perform a touch and do a lot of things. So just as you think about your brand, I just want you to think about the fact that brand creates value that’s bigger than you. That’s the bottom line is that brand is something that people can equate to you, not just you. So our quake equate to your school.
John Kozicki (48:40.203)
Well, and yeah, and you had mentioned you’re not an expert on branding. We I interviewed a friend of mine, Adam Wilson, that was episodes two parter six and seven. He is he would buckle at me calling him an expert in branding. But trust me, he’s an expert at branding. Those are the episodes to listen to for for understanding how to develop your brand and market your brand. Chris Bates, anything else?
Chris Bates (49:01.12)
Sweet.
John Kozicki (49:10.305)
before we bring this one home.
Chris Bates (49:10.516)
No, I mean, this is fun stuff. And you guys, we can all go down the wormhole on this constantly. But main thing, I think, is just to make sure that you’re creating the life that you never want to retire from.
John Kozicki (49:24.833)
There you go. Yes, you don’t want to burn out, right? And I think that burnout comes from, again, going back to my story from the beginning, the burnout happens when you start as an instructor and you say, I want to build this into something else, and you continue to work as an instructor, but then also you take on this other job, which is the manager, right? And then next thing you know, you’ve got two, two and a half full-time jobs that you can’t keep up with, right?
Chris Bates (49:54.08)
Yeah, you box yourself into a corner and now you no longer like the thing that you used to love. So make sure you build a career that you never want to retire from that you’re so excited to wake up for. and if you do that, then you’re going to make a great impact in your students and you’re going to build a really cool business.
John Kozicki (49:54.803)
And yeah.
John Kozicki (50:00.022)
Right.
John Kozicki (50:12.205)
Yes, and that all comes down to really understanding what it is that you want personally from your business. What role you play in your business, having a plan for if you’re not doing it, someone else is gonna do it. What are your growth goals? And they don’t have to be student numbers, right? All of that is about the plan. Chris, I appreciate your expertise. I appreciate you chiming in on all of this stuff.
We’re gonna wrap it up for Rock School Proprietor podcast. Always great to talk to you, Chris. Thanks. And we’ll see you next time.
Chris Bates (50:44.308)
Yes, sir. Thanks for having me. Grateful to be here, brother.
