In this episode John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) launch a three-part series that questions the traditional “minutes-per-day” practice expectation. They argue that play—not logging minutes per day of practice—sparks curiosity and drives real progress. They also revisit a framework from an earlier episode that distinguishes skill-building practice from experience-based practice.
In this episode:
- The difference between skill-building and experience in practice in music lessons and why both are important
- How play-based learning fosters musical development and drives students’ curiosity and desire to practice more
- The importance of realistic expectations for students, and how age and developmental stages can influence music instructors approach to assigning practice.
- How to adapt practice strategies for different ages, why music instructors default to assigning “minutes per day” practice, and what we should do instead.
They discuss play-based learning, when and how to promote practice, and why validating playful musical experiences keeps students engaged. Stay tuned for the next two episodes that unpack specific practice activities and how to get instructors on board.
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Episode Transcript:
(Please note: This transcript was generated by robots. There may be errors. For the best experience, please listen to the podcast episode.)
John Kozicki (00:00.926)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor Podcast. My name’s John Kozicki.
Mandy York (00:04.691)
And I’m Mandy York.
John Kozicki (00:07.276)
Mandy, we’re gonna talk about practice today. And this is going to be a we’re gonna do a little three-part series on practice. way, way, way back. It was our fourth episode, episode four. We yeah. Way back, episode four. We did an episode called What Counts?
Mandy York (00:29.865)
Way back. All right.
John Kozicki (00:36.83)
As practice. obviously that was a long time ago. I think there’s still some some good stuff in there and still worth revisiting. But I think we’re the goal with this three part series is we’re going to revisit that concept of what counts as practice, and look at practice from a slightly different perspective and examine.
why we promote practice, when we promote pack practice, how to promote practice. I am going to ruffle some feathers. You are going to keep me in check, I think. Maybe. We’ll see how it goes.
Mandy York (01:14.067)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. You love to talk about this. I think this is great. Yep. And I’m glad we’re doing this over three parts. There’s a lot there’s a lot to this.
John Kozicki (01:28.17)
Yes, there is. I think other other episodes of note, I had Dave Simon on the we had Dave Simon on I I don’t remember the the number, but he and I did an episode on revisiting the practice problem. Practice problem is one of Dave’s terms. And what that really makes me think of, now in your studio you’re working with caregivers and children.
young children, babies, toddlers. And so the concept of practice doesn’t really come up in your world, does it?
Mandy York (01:57.885)
Young children. Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (02:07.942)
We don’t use the word practice, no. No. I use I say things like enforcing what at home, what we’re doing in the studio. And I use the word play a lot, all the time, and reminding caregivers that we’re learning through play. For for early for early childhood, play is practice. Play is learning. Yeah.
John Kozicki (02:20.3)
Okay.
John Kozicki (02:25.879)
So y yeah.
John Kozicki (02:32.235)
Yeah, setting the stage early. I get it. okay, so my point is that probably something you don’t hear often in your studio, something that I used to hear a lot in my studio is a parent says, Well, they my child really loves coming here for lessons. They really enjoy the lessons, but then at home I just can’t get them to practice. So we’re dropping lessons.
Mandy York (02:34.974)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (03:01.997)
Have you ever heard that in your in your world?
Mandy York (03:08.024)
No, I have not. But do you wanna know what I hear? This is really funny. I hear, my child loves listening to the music at home and they dance and they play, but when we come here, they just sit and watch. I get that. That that it’s that it’s smart that their children are sitting and watching, that that’s how they’re learning. They’re watching, they’re taking it all in. And when they’re at home and in a safe space.
John Kozicki (03:22.197)
Hmm. What’s your response? What’s your response to that?
Mandy York (03:37.257)
They’re experimenting and playing with the things that they saw and heard in the classroom. So we talk about accepting all d levels, different kinds of participation in my classroom. Sitting and watching is participating, right? Walking in a circle for 30 minutes is participating, you know, in a a kinesthetic learner. that
John Kozicki (03:43.533)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (04:01.74)
Mm-hmm.
Uh-huh.
Mandy York (04:06.738)
There are different ages, learning approaches, different personalities, and however they’re absorbing the information that we’re giving them in that space is valid. But that is so funny. It’s just the opposite for me. That they’re having fun at home, but they’re just observing in the classroom. Yeah. But I know all about the issue that you’re talking about. I think that’s so typical, so common. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (04:16.907)
Yeah. Okay.
John Kozicki (04:26.601)
It it is yeah, it is interesting.
It’s very common. It’s very common. I used to hear it all the time. And you know, I think part of part of where my thought process on practice comes from is trying to to figure out well why
How do I answer that? How do I have some sort of some sort of way to encourage parents that they may your child might not need to practice all the time? And like, what do you mean by practice? And you know, I think there’s a long, long tradition and and in music lessons that
The expectation is that at every every private music lesson, you’ll work on some music, you will be assigned practice, and then the expectation is that you go home and you practice that so that you can come back and build on your skills. And
Not that it’s wrong, but that that sort of spurred the ideas behind episode four, which is providing two categories of practice, which I called skill-building practice and experience practice. And validating experience practice as important to the learning process as the skill building practice.
John Kozicki (06:09.121)
Which is what our default is as instructors. Like, okay, go and practice for 20 minutes and do these exercises and focus on this. And the more that I started talking about music as an experience and the other things that are equally as important to the learning process, play-based learning, experiencing music so you have a context.
for skill building practice. The more I started talking about that stuff in my studio, I noticed the less I started hearing parents say, Well, they’re just not practicing at home, so we’re gonna drop lessons.
Mandy York (06:56.99)
That’s great.
John Kozicki (06:56.993)
And I do think that
This is a hard conversation to have because it is incredibly nuanced. And I also think I used to do it myself. I when I was when I first started teaching in my early days of teaching, I would say, like, yeah, all right, practice 20 minutes. Take this home, practice it for 20 minutes. You know, or parents would say, like, okay, well, how are they doing? What should they be practicing at home? And I’d be like, they just practice this 20 minutes a day, you know.
And the problem I see with that is it becomes a pass fail for the student.
Mandy York (07:39.462)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (07:43.007)
And it’s it’s almost as if we are building in a reason for students or parents to quit on the student’s behalf, right? Because even in those situations where a parent says, They love coming here. They’re really excited to come. They love when they’re here, but we get home and they’re just not practicing, so we’re gonna quit. Right? Is that the student’s choice or is that the parents’ choice?
Mandy York (08:10.182)
Mm. Right. Yeah. We know the answer.
John Kozicki (08:12.192)
So shouldn’t we validate the first part where the it’s like, boy, they’re really having fun here. They’re really enjoying this experience. They love coming. You know? Shouldn’t shouldn’t we have a way to validate that and figure out, like, okay, how do we talk about that more and maybe a little bit less about 20 minutes a day? I don’t know. That’s where I’m coming from with it.
Mandy York (08:35.696)
Yeah. No, I I agree with you. I think about too as a young teacher, there’s there’s like a pressure too, right? There’s a pressure for you to perform to like be showing improvement and you know, well, what are you doing if you’re not sending my kid home with homework? You know, like a practice task. So I think
John Kozicki (09:00.469)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (09:04.968)
Taking it n instructors have to look at that too in themselves as they’re taking a different approach. Yeah. Yeah.
John Kozicki (09:11.018)
Yes. Exactly. Which is why I posed the question, do parents want their students to practice? Do they want their child’s their children to practice when they sign them up for music lessons? Or do they want their child to play and enjoy music?
Mandy York (09:37.746)
Yeah. I think when a
John Kozicki (09:38.796)
Well, I don’t know. Wha what do you think? What is the answer?
John Kozicki (09:44.254)
I am I am digging into all the core of your like history as a music student right now, aren’t I?
Mandy York (09:51.019)
Well, when a when a parent signs up their their young child or, you know, middle school child for music lessons, they want them to learn to to play and be a musician. They want them to come home and say, like, Okay, play me a song. What did you learn? Right? And unfortunately there’s isn’t usually that instant gratification when you’re just starting an instrument.
John Kozicki (10:10.508)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (10:20.378)
So the parents instinct is you need to be practicing more.
John Kozicki (10:23.52)
But that’s where I’m gonna push back, right?
Mandy York (10:27.28)
Okay. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (10:30.762)
Because you talk about the instant gratification of being able to pick up an instrument and play a song, right? Like so my argument here is that you’re setting the bar really high for a kid who is a beginner, right? Now if you lower that bar and like what they play
Is age appropriate, developmentally appropriate, you can still celebrate that. You know, you can still give them huge props for that. And what that does is that like kind of boosts their confidence, right? But I’m saying the order is a little off, is what I’m saying. The order of starting music lessons, practicing right away, and then at some point you get to play. I I think.
Mandy York (11:12.744)
Yes.
John Kozicki (11:28.66)
What we’re doing is we’re we’re kind of putting all of our like expert musician or parent expectations or sometimes even student expectations in in this frame where, okay, this is what music’s supposed to sound like, right? But in your classroom.
At that early developmental stage, right? With a nine-month-old kid in your class who’s babbling along with the songs in in your class, does anyone ever say, they’re not doing it right? So why don’t you sit this one out a little bit? Why don’t you go home and practice first? And then when you can actually sing the lyrics, then you can participate in this.
Mandy York (11:55.326)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (12:10.669)
Yeah.
Mandy York (12:21.032)
Doesn’t happen. every tiny no, the babble is celebrated, right? Look, they’re singing. Look, they’re singing along. I like what you’re saying about what I’m hearing you say is that you want to change expectations, right? Or yeah, or give realistic, appropriate expectations. And well, and so sure. So, like in my classroom, and I kind of have this really neat.
John Kozicki (12:22.24)
Doesn’t happen.
John Kozicki (12:26.57)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (12:37.056)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (12:41.322)
Yeah, so here’s what I mean.
Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.
Mandy York (12:50.64)
setting where I’ve got multiple age groups, we can see the different levels and what we might expect in different age groups. The baby that’s just sitting up is going to start babbling, right? And maybe they’re babbling on like the the tonic note of the song. And we all get excited and we say, look, they’re singing. And then we see like a one year old starting to tap their knees when we do, right? Like tapping the beat. And then we see a four-year-old like singing back
John Kozicki (13:03.179)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (13:10.304)
Uh-huh.
John Kozicki (13:15.243)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (13:20.392)
Tonal patterns in class. So and each of those is celebrated and each level age has a different different expectation. They’re all they’re all valid and they’re they’re all celebrated. I like so I I like this. I’m like thinking about my classroom and then translating it to to what you’re saying. I I can get behind this. I like it.
John Kozicki (13:41.823)
Exactly. Okay, so now let’s say you have a brand new, I don’t know, let’s say be a brand new piano student, drum student, whatever, who is 10. Right? Their 10-year-old is in is in elementary school, upper elementary school, right? They’re they’re like fully capable of the concept of studying, or working on something for some sort of
Mandy York (13:49.374)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (14:10.74)
Some sort of payoff or improvement, right? Now that’s in school. Developmentally, yes, they’re there. But on in terms of their skill, if they start piano or whatever instrument, they don’t have the skills yet. Right. They’re still, they’re still that six-month-old in your class in terms of the skill. They haven’t developed them. Yes, they have a greater capacity to develop those skills, right?
But I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t allow them to play and explore, even though they have the capacity to learn differently. I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t allow them to play and explore and figure things out and get creative later rather than sooner. Right. I don’t see a reason why we need to say, like, well, you want to play that first, you have to be able to do these things.
That’s what I’m saying. I’m saying these two things can work in tandem.
Mandy York (15:13.608)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (15:15.174)
but I what I am pretty firm about is that I don’t like the idea of putting up those roadblocks and saying, if you want to play, first you have to practice.
Mandy York (15:29.48)
Yeah. Sure. Mm-hmm. No, I like it. I can get behind that. Yes, I can get behind that. Mm hmm. So far so good.
John Kozicki (15:30.88)
That’s where I am.
John Kozicki (15:35.116)
Okay. Okay. so far so good. This is like definitely going in a different direction than I planned this conversation, but I I think I think I’m making the case. So really the point that I’m making when it comes to parents.
Mandy York (15:45.895)
Okay.
John Kozicki (15:56.673)
I think they want what we want. They want to see their kids play. They want to see their kids excited about learning. They want to see their kids exploring music and the like playing is going to lead to that that progress. Playing more is going to lead them to want to learn more and want to improve and want to practice, right? So that
When parents again sign their kids up for lessons, that’s what they’re envisioning. They’re envisioning this thing like further out, right? They’re not thinking about like, boy, I can’t wait to hear my kid practice every week. Can’t wait to have that that battle with them every week. I, you know, they’re picturing them playing at, you know, at their their family holiday party, right? That’s or playing around a campfire. That’s what they’re picturing.
Mandy York (16:36.142)
yeah.
Mandy York (16:52.101)
yeah.
John Kozicki (16:56.472)
And for that 10-year-old who didn’t have the the benefit of coming to your studio at, you know, starting from six, well, let’s let’s figure out like how to present this less like like school and more like play-based experiential learning. That’s where I’m coming from with this.
I’m gonna okay, so quick story. I may have told this on the podcast before, and I I think I’ve shared this with you. but another thing that really opened my eyes to to this idea, and again, because I I used to be in that same same school where it was it was like, okay, I have a responsibility to assign practice for my student every week, regardless of like how long they’ve been with me, whether it’s
their first lesson or whether it’s they’re like, you know, two years in or whatever. but shared this. My son is is on the autism spectrum. And when we got his diagnosis at a very, very young age, we were locked out of traditional therapies that are usually recommended because our insurance didn’t cover it. So it was like
Either we pay out of pocket like tens of thousands of dollars for these therapies, or we find a different a different avenue. And what we found for him was a program called the Play Project, which is all play-based, play-based learning. And we were very much involved in that process. And the entire concept is
If you want to get your child to go through these developmental stages that neurotypical kids go through, well, first you have to be part of their world. And in order to be part of their world at you know, at like two and a half, three years old, you have to play with them. Because when you’re playing with them,
John Kozicki (19:18.207)
then they’re engaged and they’re having fun and then you can slowly introduce new concepts. But if you try and say like, okay, this is what you have to do, go do it, nothing’s gonna happen. Nothing at all.
Mandy York (19:29.97)
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I would also I would maybe say like you have to model play for them. Like play with them, but you’re you’re modeling play for them. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (19:38.933)
Sure. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (19:43.264)
That’s it exactly, right? But first, yeah. You play with them and then you model new ways to do it. And like those two things, like me co contemplating that and also contemplating why do parents pull their kids from this activity that they otherwise enjoy because they’re not practicing. Right? Those two things are like really what got me.
Mandy York (19:47.848)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (20:11.829)
kind of thinking about this in in a really serious way. so and and I guess
If you have a student who’s coming in and they are like, you know, early teens, very academically focused, yeah, you can you can assign them practice and like they can respond to that because like maybe their motivation is like, well, yeah, I really want to get good. They’ve already developed that idea of like, I really want to go get good at this this thing, right?
Mandy York (20:42.504)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (20:51.445)
But I don’t know if that’s necessarily the majority of students. I think you can get the majority of students to that point.
But I think before you get them to that point is that exploratory phase, that play based phase, it and it almost doesn’t matter what age they are, I think.
Mandy York (21:11.868)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you’re right. It has to start that way. This is one thing that I warn my parents about because they’re coming to me, right, as they’re starting to age out of early childhood music and ask, Do you know any teachers? And you know, do you think my child’s rus ready for private lessons? And the one thing I always say, no matter what my advice is to the specific family, like y you ha it has to be a good fit.
This is I mean, this is a different topic, but also the same, like if y they’re not having fun, if they’re not playing with music like you’re saying, there’s this there’s this like chance, you like this beginning of lessons where i you’re you’re gonna make it or break it. And if it doesn’t go well and they quit or they have a bad experience, that might be it for them, you know? And you don’t want that to happen.
John Kozicki (22:00.64)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (22:07.657)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.
Mandy York (22:10.162)
I mean that’s it’s just a shame when it does. So another reason that your play-based learning in the beginning is so important. Yeah. No, I’m with you. I am with you. I I I maybe I’m just looking a little bit farther down the road. So I you wanna hear my my little concern here? I just as a student gets older
John Kozicki (22:19.613)
It seems like you’re having a hard time with this.
John Kozicki (22:29.77)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (22:33.301)
Sure.
Mandy York (22:40.826)
Or or maybe maybe with an older beginner. the thing that I worry about most are like bad habits. I my daughter is a singer. She plays guitar. She plays guitar in the band. She, you know, she plays some keys. She’s all into the rock band program. But she’s a singer too, and she does some musical theater and she’s twelve years old.
John Kozicki (22:50.891)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (23:09.918)
12 and a half, and I’m just starting to hear some like bad habits creeping in. And she doesn’t, she hasn’t had a whole lot of like formal voice training, voice lessons. So I’m starting to work with her and coach her on that kind of stuff. so that’s what concerns me. Like, what if you you just start off? And again, I’m a singer, I’ve taught private lessons in voice, but but say piano.
John Kozicki (23:14.762)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy York (23:39.677)
Okay, you this is what you wanna do. Okay, let’s just start right away and let’s play this song. This is what we’re gonna do. What if they’re like what if their wrists and finger curvature isn’t right? Like are you gonna make sure all of that is where it needs to be also as you’re jumping right into playing a song?
John Kozicki (24:00.16)
This is why I why I love this, because it is nuanced, right? Like, yeah, that’s a valid concern. let’s take your daughter’s situation. Now, you noticed some some habits. Now, like I’m gonna draw a clear delineation here between you as a parent who also knows how to teach this thing this thing, versus an instructor who
Mandy York (24:03.731)
Yeah.
Mandy York (24:24.06)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (24:28.883)
your daughter might be working with. you’re noticing some bad habits, you approach her about them. Is she receptive to what you’re you’re saying?
Mandy York (24:42.322)
Yes. And and let me tell you, I’m as shocked as anyone else. So I think that this maybe is not typical actually. Because one of my daughters would not be receptive. The other that I’m that we’re talking about is willing to work with me.
John Kozicki (24:51.401)
Well I I think
John Kozicki (24:57.897)
Yeah. And I think part of that is, well, you’re her parent. So it’s a different dynamic. But the fact that she is receptive to it and you’re her parent speaks volumes to her desire to want to improve. Right? And that, like, would that have happened five years ago, three years ago?
Mandy York (25:04.51)
Mm-hmm.
Totally.
Mandy York (25:18.544)
Exactly. Yeah. Yep.
John Kozicki (25:27.797)
Who knows? We can’t say, right? But knowing your daughter, she’s been playing with music. She’s been developing these skills for years at this point, right? And there are certain things that she probably wants to get better. And she understands the importance of putting in focused work on those specific things to see the improvement, right? She has the capacity to do that.
Because she’s not you know, going back to that analogy of like what your classroom looks like, she’s not a six month old anymore. Right? She’s she’s developed this this core understanding of music over the course of years that she has the capacity to really say, like, all right, I want to focus on this and I want to improve. Students get to that point at different stages. Some of them never get there. Some of them aren’t that some of them aren’t that.
Mandy York (26:24.914)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (26:27.134)
Focused on it. We have adult students even who come to the studio and say, like, I’ve been playing for this long many years. I really want to get better at this specific thing. And then we’re like, cool, we can help you with that. And we show them how to do it. And a lot of that involves really like skill-based, focused practice. And they’re like, You know? So
Mandy York (26:50.719)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure.
John Kozicki (26:56.135)
The point being is like everyone’s in this for a different reason. And
Mandy York (26:59.652)
Yes. Important to remember that. I think that’s kind of a beautiful thing. Yeah.
John Kozicki (27:04.198)
Yes. And and hey, if you’re one of those instructors who who says, like, my job as an instructor is to get you ready for recitals and performances and a future in music school and I am only this is these are my expectations. Cool. Keep doing it, right? Because there’s students there for you. But I’m saying
Mandy York (27:29.212)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep.
John Kozicki (27:34.546)
Not everyone has to be that because not every student is going to be that student.
Mandy York (27:41.566)
Yep. Right on.
John Kozicki (27:42.737)
And d developmentally, you know what, the first like year, couple years, it depends on the st on the age of the student. Depends on so many factors. But like to hook them in and to lean into play-based practice and experiential practice. I I don’t see any downside to it in the front end.
Like, yeah, you’re talking about, well, what about bad habits? You can still talk about bad habits. You can mention them. Yeah, good technique. Of course, of course. Show them proper technique. That’s important, right? If if they don’t pick it up right away, like don’t make that a reason not to move forward with other things simply because their technique to needs to improve, right? There’s a there’s plenty of time to work on that.
Mandy York (28:18.044)
Or good technique. We can we can make it a positive. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.
John Kozicki (28:41.086)
Right? Look at any other any other activity, dance, baseball, other sports, whatever. Does that ever happen? You know?
Mandy York (28:50.952)
Right. Mm hmm. Yeah, talk about practice. We’ve mentioned this before. Nobody’s pulling their kids out of baseball because they’re not practicing baseball at home. Right.
John Kozicki (29:00.936)
Yeah. So what I’m saying is like I’m not saying that practice doesn’t matter, right? And it’s very nuanced, but there’s more to it than just this this skill-based practice. That’s that’s what I’m saying. There’s plenty of time to focus on that stuff. You can do both. And if you l go back to listen to episode four, we go really in depth into like here are these two.
Kinds of practices to talk about. What this is about, I think, is
Really, like understanding what parents want.
And
Not immediately going to that default of assigning a certain number of minutes of practice every week. And and that being the only thing, if that makes sense. Okay. all right. Boy, this was way more intense than I expected it to be.
Mandy York (30:02.494)
It does. Yeah.
Mandy York (30:09.566)
It was good. This is good conversation. All right. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (30:15.12)
So this is part one. Part two the plan is we’re gonna go back to that that in in episode four I presented a list of ten things that quote unquote count as practice that we can do in our studios. so part two we’re gonna go a little bit more in depth on those ten things that count as practice. and then part three
is how we can get our instructors on board or even like you as an instructor comfortable with this idea. I know I’ve I I’ve noticed or I’ve I’ve heard my instructors many times giving that default answer. The parent says, Hey, how much time should they be practicing at home? 15 minutes a day. Okay, see you next week. I gotta go to another lesson.
Mandy York (31:14.194)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Kozicki (31:15.754)
Right. That being the path of least resistance. We just had a really heated, maybe not heated, but like a a serious 30-minute conversation about this. How do we condense that in a way that facilitates a deeper conversation? so we’re not just going to that that default.
Mandy York (31:37.022)
Yeah. Educating the parents. Again, it’s an important part of what we do. All right.
John Kozicki (31:42.216)
Right. my closing thought, I even wrote this down and I wanna say it because I think it’s really important.
The idea that like play being this future thing in music, right? That’s sort of what I’m railing against right now. Play isn’t the reward for practice. Practice is the result of play. So play is going to create that desire to learn more, that desire to explore, and the desire to refine skills.
Mandy York (32:17.298)
Yeah. I love it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s I mean, that’s how we got here, right? I love that. That’s great. And you know what? This this conversation really has made me think about the work that I do too. It’s all play. We I mean, I talk about to my parents about this all the time. We are learning through play. Play is the work of children. Like so
John Kozicki (32:18.556)
Just like where your daughter is right now.
John Kozicki (32:34.634)
Hmm.
John Kozicki (32:44.71)
It is like the okay, in all seriousness, the work that you’re doing is so important. And I know it’s important because when I get one of your former students who comes to my studio at say six years old, they have already played with music for many, many years. And they like things just are so much easier and things click for them.
Mandy York (32:47.816)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (33:13.54)
They are to the point where they are like, yeah, we st we’re six years old, they still want play. So we’re still playing. But they are so much more further along than a six, seven, eight, ten-year-old student who’s never done that before. And so when you talk about like when are they ready for 10 minutes a day practicing this, right? Your students who are six who come to me.
Mandy York (33:29.67)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (33:43.348)
they’re closer to being ready for that than a brand new student at say 10 years old.
Mandy York (33:48.594)
Right. Yeah. And it’s was all through play. We didn’t teach them like notes and rhythm. It’s just something that they kind of like language, they just kind of start to learn and understand through use. Yeah. Yep. It’s awesome. I love doing it.
John Kozicki (33:52.453)
Yes.
John Kozicki (34:07.422)
Right, but just because someone’s ten years old, just because someone’s ten years old and starting music lessons doesn’t mean they don’t need all that first and need to play first and get to that.
Mandy York (34:13.404)
No. Right.
Mandy York (34:18.534)
Mm. Yeah. Cool. We’d yes. We’re good, John. We’re good. Yeah.
John Kozicki (34:20.34)
Do we agree now? Are we good? Okay. Cool. All right. Well, so we’ll put a pin in this one and then we’ll see you next time for the next two episodes in this series on practice.
Mandy York (34:35.583)
Perfect. Sounds good. Bye.
John Kozicki (34:37.226)
Right.
