This episode explores how music schools and lesson studios can use local collaborations to grow, drive visibility, referrals, and community trust in ways paid ads often can’t.
In this episode focused on creative marketing tactics, John Kozicki (Michigan Rock School and RockSchoolProprietor.com) and Mandy York (Music Time of Milford) share real examples and practical ideas for events and workshops, and the benefits of being seen as an active part of your town’s cultural life. This is long-game referral marketing that works!
Included:
- The benefits of community collaborations, such as visibility, referrals, and community strength.
- John and Mandy offer up some creative ideas for collaborations that they’ve personally done — some successful and some not successful.
- The important cost considerations and opportunity costs when exploring collaborations with other local businesses and organization.
- How to balance those benefits and costs while calculating your investment in time, money, and effort.
- How building community trust and word-of-mouth marketing can come from these collaboration, and be a equally strong source of referrals as your students and families.
Rock School Proprietor is a podcast for independent music school owners and lesson studio operators looking to attract more students and create a sustainable business. New episodes drop Wednesdays at RockSchoolProprietor.com and on all podcast streaming platforms.
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Episode Transcript:
(Please note: This transcript was generated by robots. There may be errors. For the best experience, please listen to the podcast episode.)
John Kozicki (00:00.972)
Welcome to Rock School Proprietor Podcast. My name’s John Kazicki.
Mandy (00:05.12)
And I’m Mandy York.
John Kozicki (00:07.205)
Mandy, we’re gonna talk about collaborating with other businesses in your community today. That’s the that’s the focus of this one. and I know that’s something that you’ve done a lot of. I like to do that also. So I thought, yeah, why not like talk about that, give some ideas, benefits, things to watch out for when you’re trying to collaborate and plan.
Mandy (00:14.136)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (00:35.719)
other events or promotions with other community organizations and and businesses.
Mandy (00:43.148)
Mm-hmm. I love this. Yep.
John Kozicki (00:45.691)
How much time do you I mean it like from the outside, I I see when I look at your business, it seems like you do this a lot. but I don’t have you know, I don’t know how to quantify that. I just I just think like, yeah, Mandy does a lot of collaboration in the community.
Mandy (01:03.968)
Yeah. I I really enjoy it. I would say huh. a couple times a month, I’d say I have at least two th two events collapse on the calendar every month. So it’s a you know, it’s a good balance, but but yeah.
John Kozicki (01:17.103)
Okay. That is a that is a lot. Two per month is a lot. That’s like every other week.
Mandy (01:24.174)
I know, I know, I know. I always do that. it’s just two and then you realise, yeah, every other week.
John Kozicki (01:30.063)
Yeah. Wait, did you say a did you say two a month or every two months?
Mandy (01:33.836)
Yeah. Two a two a month. Yeah. Yes. But it also depends on what the collaboration is. So we’ll we’ll get into that. There’s you know, some some collabs are bigger than others, but yeah.
John Kozicki (01:37.069)
yeah, that is a lie.
John Kozicki (01:42.097)
Okay.
John Kozicki (01:46.565)
Okay. All right. well, I wanted to talk about this because last week I had a meeting and there’s a new ice cream shop in our town. And I don’t know, have you been to the new ice cream shop? Yeah. Okay. and so kind of long backstory, I guess. I I used to live in Madison, Wisconsin, and there was this place called the Chocolate Shop and had the
Mandy (02:01.363)
yes, we have my whole family. Yeah.
John Kozicki (02:16.09)
What I think is the best ice cream in the Midwest. And when I moved from Wisconsin, I really missed that ice cream and I couldn’t find it anywhere else. And so I walk into this new ice cream shop a month or so ago, or a couple months ago, and I see a sign that says they proudly serve chocolate shop ice cream. And it blew my mind. Yeah, my wife was like, she was out of the country at the time, and I’m like,
Mandy (02:40.674)
that’s so cool.
John Kozicki (02:45.358)
I immediately wanted to text her. my gosh, Juggly Chop ice cream. but I was trying to figure out like, okay, what time is it where she is, and what if I what have you texting her in the middle of the night? But so then I got thinking about like how much I love this ice cream. And I just I decided to contact the the owners of the shop because I I don’t know them, but I thought like, yeah, I’ll introduce myself, tell them how much I love the ice cream, and then pitch them the idea of
Mandy (02:52.575)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (03:15.094)
some sort of collaboration like a like a Michigan rock school signature sunday. All right. So I pitched the idea and had a meeting last week. They love it. We’re gonna do it. Perfect collaboration, right? Because like we see a lot of kids at the rock school. Kids love ice cream, families love ice cream, it’s gonna be good for them.
Mandy (03:23.406)
Hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (03:44.155)
They’ll help promote what we do. Perfect collaboration, right? So I don’t want to give away. you know what? I’ll actually by the time this episode comes out, I think the collaboration will probably already happen. so the Sunday is gonna be called Smells Like Teen Sprinkles. I did, I did, yeah, yeah.
Mandy (03:48.408)
Yes. Yeah.
Mandy (04:05.467)
Yes. Did you come up with that? Nice job.
John Kozicki (04:11.73)
so it’s it’s gonna be super cool. I’m excited about it. But that is I mean, that’s a collaboration like from the outside, like a music school and an ice cream shop, it doesn’t necessarily it’s not something that I I think would be front of mind. but I’m super excited about.
Mandy (04:32.846)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
John Kozicki (04:34.604)
So that’s what led to this conversation. It’s like, okay, well, what are when I do something like this, what are the benefits for me? so I I just kind of jotted down like my list of benefits for these types of community collaborations. And like obviously you do others, I do others, but pose the question like why?
Why collaborate with other businesses and organizations in the community? do you want me to list my my benefits or do you wanna tell me why you do it? Because you do it a lot.
Mandy (05:12.546)
Yeah. I wanna yeah, list yours first and then I’ll I’ll go.
John Kozicki (05:15.684)
Okay. number one.
Community visibility. So just by doing these collaborations, you have more visibility in in your community, right? it just organically, whoever you’re partnering partnering with is going to obviously, hopefully, promote what this collaboration is. we’re stronger together, right? So number that’s number one. Number two, again.
It’s you’re expanding your reach beyond just your core audience. and then through these collaborating organizations and community leaders, you’re going to receive greater visibility, opportunities for them to recommend you. This becomes part of your referral pipeline, essentially. So
Mandy (06:16.323)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (06:17.624)
As a for instance, if I’m talking to families at my music school and I mean the obvious, like, hey, we we need to buy a new guitar, we need to buy guitar strings, you know, where should we go? I’ll recommend the the places around that I think are good because we don’t sell and we don’t do any retail. Or even i i if they’re talking about restaurants in town or or whatever, families trust me.
For whatever reason, right? But they do because I’m part of the community. And so these other business owners, these other leaders in the community organizations are similar. Their customers trust them to make referrals, so that keeps us front of mind. so referral pipeline, visibility, and then this is a big one, and I don’t know if you can put like
Mandy (06:48.364)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (07:16.438)
real quantifiable value on this, but when you’re part of these these collaborations, it it it’s an expression and a demonstration that you are not just in the community, but you’re part of the community.
Mandy (07:32.493)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (07:33.849)
So you are part of making your your town or your community stronger, better. You’re actively taking a role in improving what it’s like to to live in your area, as opposed to just, hey, it’s this business in town, right? Like if I go to C V S, I go there ’cause it’s convenient. It’s right there, right? But I don’t think of CVS as like
Mandy (07:59.436)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (08:04.024)
really community minded or name your random gas station or supermarket or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. last one, obviously reciprocity. You’re you hope that whatever you are doing to promote this collaboration, your your partner, your business community partners will will promote what you’re doing as well.
Mandy (08:11.672)
Sure. Yep. yeah.
Mandy (08:32.918)
Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yes. Yes, yes to all of these. I feel the same way. I I like being visible in the community. I I want I want to, I’m not, I mean, I’m not always, but I want to have a present wherever there are like family businesses or family events around because I’m a family music studio, right?
John Kozicki (08:37.829)
Okay.
John Kozicki (09:01.37)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mandy (09:01.728)
And when people think about music for kids, I want them to think of music time. Right? Same goes for you. Just like you said, it’s that visibility, name recognition. It’s building building the word of mouth and reputation. it it made me think while you were talking, we recently did an episode on we talked about like Facebook advertising and stuff.
I that wasn’t what the our episode was completely about, but like how tricky it is i right now, like where do you advertise and how? When we know word of mouth is the best way to advertise a business. So this is this is one of those ways. This is this is marketing, these things are, right?
John Kozicki (09:29.924)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (09:42.81)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (09:50.16)
Yes, yeah.
Mandy (09:53.656)
To get to get the com community talking and and put you at the top of that list. And I personally am like I am, like you said, invested in our community. I yeah, that’s exactly why I do these things. personally. And then yes, I want the our broader community to know that we as a whole, commu music time is invested in this community. You and I spend a lot of time
John Kozicki (10:03.822)
Right.
Mandy (10:24.118)
cultivating our studio communities. We talk all the time how important that is to us. Our studio communities are part of this broader Milford community, right? And beyond the town, right? So, so I think that it’s worth investing in that also and being
John Kozicki (10:29.892)
Yes.
John Kozicki (10:36.835)
Right, the town where we live, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (10:47.363)
Yeah, and these collaborations and that investment in the community, those all signal to our to our clients that this is and and potential potential clients that this is what we’re about. You know, we are yes, we do, we offer this service, but we’re also invested in more than just what we do.
Mandy (11:04.716)
Yeah.
Mandy (11:12.95)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. It’s not just about the the service. It’s about the community. Yep. I’m all in. That’s why I love this stuff.
John Kozicki (11:22.275)
Yeah, well, and I think it you know, th this wasn’t even my in my notes, but going back to the my story about the the ice cream thing, it’s like that’s that’s an an opportunity to get creative and and do something fun and do something different that sort of breaks the monotony of our day-to-day, but also breaks that.
Mandy (11:38.924)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (11:50.922)
normal routine of how we promote our businesses, how we market our businesses, it’s a little curveball that that can be a bit more exciting.
Mandy (12:00.28)
Yeah, for sure. I want to talk about some of the things I do. Is that okay? Can I fit this in now? Okay. So things like your collab with the ice cream shop. our our smoothie shop does that too. They’ve got a couple collabs like with the yoga studio and and stuff like that. That’s really that’s really smart. That’s fun. Those are like that’s a
John Kozicki (12:06.265)
Yes, sure.
Mandy (12:28.76)
That’s kind of a minimal investment collab, right? It’s very creative, but you you’re not, you don’t have to show up for anything. You’re not spending money on this. You’re just, it’s something fun and creative that gives both of you exposure. I think there’s when we’re talking about collaborations like this, there’s a wide range of things that you can do in your communities. the thing that I’ve been doing the longest is
John Kozicki (12:33.091)
Yes.
Mandy (12:56.748)
working with local libraries. And I guess these are kind of it’s fuzzy events slash collaboration. But like I’ve established relationships with multiple children’s librarians in in the area, right? And they keep me on their roster and I go in or one of my teachers and and we we make music with the library patrons, which crosses over with my community as well. I often see my students in there.
John Kozicki (13:21.711)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (13:26.83)
it’s more exposure. and it is a it’s I get really great feedback from the the librarians because they say like these programs always fill. We love having you know, music as part of our regular lineup of activities. So it’s right, w it’s benefiting both of us. I’ve been doing that the longest and I would say that’s one I’ve got at least every other month.
You know, a library visit. Yeah.
John Kozicki (13:55.984)
So when you yeah, so when you talk about your the your community collaborations that you’re doing and it’s every other week, that is pretty regularly scheduled, I’m guessing. Okay.
Mandy (14:07.412)
Yes. Yep. I would say like that I’ve got a library in there every other month, at least. Sometimes too. Yeah. so library, that’s a little different. But local businesses, I like, you know, there’s a business in town that does like child care with workspaces for for adults, right?
John Kozicki (14:12.727)
Okay. All right.
John Kozicki (14:34.255)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (14:36.738)
We serve the same audience. We have a lot of crossover with our families. so we’ve we’ve collaborated in having me visit her space, right? And she and she kind of throws an event. we have teamed up. Yeah.
John Kozicki (14:52.741)
Can I ask you a question? Yeah, can I ask you a question about this? When you are thinking about these collaborations, what is do you have, do you have yeses and no’s? Like, okay, these are my criteria. This would be a yes, this would be a no.
Mandy (15:08.832)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (15:12.686)
Hmm.
John Kozicki (15:13.163)
Or or maybe not what are the no’s, but like what are the for sure yeses?
Mandy (15:17.74)
Like the for sure yeses are the
businesses, organizations that serve kids and families for me. Same audience. Yep. Yep. That would be a for sure. yeah. And I really like I like I like knowing the businesses in the area. I like having relationships with the owners. we do serve the same audience.
John Kozicki (15:28.239)
So the same audience, right? So your same target market. Yeah. Okay.
John Kozicki (15:49.327)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (15:54.314)
Someone maybe could loosely call us like competitive businesses. I don’t see it that way. I really like collaborating rather than viewing anybody else in the community as like competition, right? It’s better to collaborate than than go in the the other direction.
John Kozicki (16:09.208)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Kozicki (16:13.728)
Yeah, and in fact, I was I was recently on Eric Brenner’s podcast, The 440. shout out to Eric and in our conversation, he even mentioned he doesn’t believe that any of us are really in competition. He believes that there’s there’s there’s always going to be more people who are looking for our services than people who can provide that service.
Mandy (16:42.36)
Perf Yeah, I feel the same way. Yes. I think that’s smart. and that’s when I think too, like to to not be consumed with worrying about a competitor and just doing the best that you can, right? Focusing on what you do well because there there are enough people out there to serve. so anyway, I I like collaborating and
John Kozicki (16:45.7)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (17:10.07)
you know, we keep we keep in touch, we share ideas, even stuff like that, what’s working, what’s not. We teamed up as businesses for young children and provided activities at a an arts festival, like a broader arts festival within the community. So we have a really great nonprofit arts organization. there they had some musicians visit.
John Kozicki (17:13.38)
Uh-huh.
Mandy (17:36.83)
or you know set up for different times during the day. It was an outdoor event, lots of vendors in tents. We provided some crafts for kids, me and this other business owner. I even did a short concert in the morning just on my own, you know, that’s beautiful. Like I love that because it’s a nonprofit arts organization that we’re supporting. They offer classes for
John Kozicki (17:53.955)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (18:06.35)
Preschoolers through adults. it it’s an arts organization. We’re in the arts. Like it just it that one checked all of the boxes, right? And then it was right here in our computer. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (18:08.612)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (18:17.206)
Right. So checking the boxes. same same target market. also working in the arts. So promoting this this broader this broader category, not just music but arts in general. yep, yeah, community focused. Yeah, it ticks all the boxes. You’re right.
Mandy (18:22.755)
Mm.
Mandy (18:26.872)
Yeah.
Mandy (18:35.062)
Arts in our community, yeah.
Mandy (18:41.282)
Yes. That was a great one. I loved that. I’ve done I’ve changed up with a yoga instructor before. That was really cool. So we did like with my older kids they do drumming. So we picked a theme. ‘Cause these children’s yoga instructors are so cool and they give their they can give their poses all these like animal names, right? So if she’s doing these certain animal poses, then I do different animal rhythms and we
John Kozicki (19:06.115)
Yeah, yeah.
Mandy (19:11.698)
it was a workshop. I had two, two or three hours. I can’t remember. And so we did Yeah, yeah. But I was with someone else. Like she did a solid, you know, 45 minutes of yoga. I did a solid 45 minutes of music. We went outside. We it like when you’re collaborating and sharing the load, that’s another thing about this. Like I’m not that interested in doing a two or three hour workshop completely by myself. But when you’ve got
John Kozicki (19:17.598)
wow.
John Kozicki (19:35.043)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (19:40.748)
someone else there. It was super fun. And we were able to integrate these yoga and drumming patterns together. It was it was a a fun and unique experience.
John Kozicki (19:51.973)
It sounds like a lot of your community collaborations that you’re mentioning are you doing your thing, right? At it at someplace else or with someone else or modifying it. So you’re essentially looking at this: like, here’s this class format that I generally do and offer in in my business and in my my space. how can I take that and either
Mandy (19:59.086)
Mm. Yes. Yep.
John Kozicki (20:21.87)
present it in a different space or present it in a slightly different way for a different audience or in collaboration with someone else and intermesh the two.
Mandy (20:35.372)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. So that means unlike like a the ice cream or the smoothie collaboration, like this is time. This is time and money investment, right? So this is where we really need to think about what and how we’re doing these collaborations.
John Kozicki (20:52.589)
Yes.
John Kozicki (20:59.81)
Yeah, and I want to talk about the costs associated with these collaborations because they’re all gonna cost something. whether that is time or monetary investment or whatever it is, it will cost you. So I I’m kind of of the opinion that you want to get the most bank for your buck, right? So the
Mandy (21:02.06)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
John Kozicki (21:25.56)
The lowest cost and the highest benefit obviously are going to be the sweet spot, right? And you don’t always know if it’s something new, but for you over time, like you do these library things over and over. I’m assuming that because you’re still doing them and you’ve been doing them for quite some time, you’ve assessed that the cost to you versus the benefit that you get.
is a good ratio. Like you get a a good benefit at a reasonable cost. Cause that’s that’s costing you your personal time, right? Okay. And what would you say your benefits are for those library collaborations?
Mandy (22:00.738)
Yes. Yep, absolutely.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Mandy (22:12.812)
Well, I mean I’ll I’ll back up just a minute. I when I first started, I was doing these, I was doing these for free. And we’ve talked about this before, like offering offering services for free and getting paid, right? I did it for free in the beginning. I do charge for these now. I do charge for these. and but I
John Kozicki (22:21.783)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (22:32.76)
Okay.
John Kozicki (22:38.573)
So just to clarify, because I have questions, is the is what you’re charging is it would it still be considered discounted from like the hours that you put into it, would it would it be less than the hours that you’re then you you’d be getting paid if you’re doing a class in your studio? Okay.
Mandy (22:41.089)
Yeah.
Mandy (22:56.064)
Yes, yes. So if I was doing kind of i a very, very similar event at my studio, I would call it like a pop-up event and I would give it a theme and I would sell seats at my studio. I would probably make double, you know, just doing this at my studio. Yes. Good question. so it is discounted. but I consistently see library patrons.
John Kozicki (23:12.641)
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.
Mandy (23:25.836)
signing up for my classes. I consistently do.
John Kozicki (23:28.013)
Okay.
So what you’re getting paid is offsetting your costs, your you that costs your time, and then so you’re lowering that cost with with what you’re getting paid from the library, and then the benefit is you’re seeing those faces convert to students.
Mandy (23:34.616)
Hmm. Yeah.
Mandy (23:48.738)
Yep. Yeah. And it’s the and it’s the visibility too. yeah, the word of mouth, it it spreads.
John Kozicki (23:58.356)
Okay, so I want to talk about costs because obviously with what we do with the Rock School, we do a lot of performances. And some of those we plan at our venue. Some of them we we will collaborate with other organizations and places in the community. I’ve had to turn down a lot of community performances. And
Mandy (24:00.43)
Mm.
Mandy (24:06.862)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (24:27.179)
The reason that I turn down a lot of community performances is because of the cost associated with it. Real common scenario, we’ll get off asked frequently to come have students perform at say like a like a school fair or event or something like that. And again, going back to like your criteria, well, is it the same audience? Yes. Right?
same potential market. So that’s a positive, but the the costs tend to outweigh the benefits for me in that situation. Because and you know the schools don’t understand this, but when I start talking to them about the event, things that I’ll ask is there is there what kind of sound system is there?
Mandy (25:21.678)
Mm-hmm. If there is a sound yeah.
John Kozicki (25:22.657)
Right. And if there’s no sound system right. If there’s no sound system, then we have to bring one. Right. And if we have to bring one, then the amount of extra time that it takes us to set things up skyrockets and and tear things down. Right. Because we’re already bringing like if we’re bringing a band of kids, we’re bringing a lot of equipment that they probably don’t have, like a drum set and like guitar amps and
Mandy (25:47.747)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (25:51.742)
then I have to hire at least one of my my instructors to to be there and and coordinate with the groups, right? There’s administrative cost to figure out, okay, which one of these groups can I bring? so yep. So then if we are bringing a say like a PA system, as I mentioned, there’s extra time to set all that stuff up. Who’s gonna run the PA system?
Mandy (26:08.47)
Availability, right?
John Kozicki (26:21.249)
Right. So these these costs like inch up and up and up to the point where it’s like, you know, minimum. That’s like a $500 expense. and then when I consider, yeah, it’s the same target market, but you know, am I gonna make that back? Or is there an easier way to reach that target market? Like,
Mandy (26:32.365)
Yeah.
Mandy (26:43.896)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (26:50.305)
Hey, what if I just donated, like, you know, a free month of lessons for for your silent auction or something like that, right? All of a sudden the costs associated with that are a lot less because and there’s a lot less work involved. So yeah, unfortunately, I’ve had to say no to a lot of those things because of the the cost involved in in setting them up. So
Mandy (26:59.307)
Y yeah.
John Kozicki (27:17.405)
But yeah, I do and so now I look for like, well, what are these other creative things to use more as like marketing tools? Like like this collaboration with the ice cream shop is is a really good one, right? Because what did it take? It took me like, I don’t know, half hour, forty five minutes of sort of brainstorming the idea, sending the email, went to a short meeting. you know, we’re gonna get some
Mandy (27:28.568)
Yeah. huh.
John Kozicki (27:44.356)
custom stickers printed. So that’ll be part of the promotion. So there’s a little bit cost there. we’ll probably might be a little time because we’re we’re planning to do some videos. like maybe making the Sunday and, you know, maybe I’ll bring in like a student to to be involved with that. So, you know, like more a little bit more time costs, but nothing nearly close to what it costs when we’re
Mandy (27:59.202)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (28:13.077)
recording these performances with the students. Yeah.
Mandy (28:15.018)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, that makes me feel really fortunate that I can fit almost all of my stuff in a large duffel bag. When I, you know, I like I call it my Mary Poppins bag ’cause it just I can fit so many things in there. I can take all my, you know, kids percussion instruments and everything. So yeah, that’s a that is a big difference you have to think about.
John Kozicki (28:25.195)
Ha
John Kozicki (28:32.237)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (28:36.523)
Yeah, yeah.
John Kozicki (28:42.709)
Yeah, and you know, there are workarounds. You know, we’ve we’ve done years ago I would host open mic nights, and so that that’s a good way to to cross promote with where whatever venue it is that we’re using. so that’s that’s sort of a and then we can invite students to that, but it it’s it’s not like we have to coordinate things the same way. so I think there are there are definitely workarounds. but
Mandy (28:57.079)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (29:06.158)
Yeah.
John Kozicki (29:11.669)
Yeah, my my word of caution there is what is the cost associated with this and and just kind of be careful because you get excited planning these things.
Mandy (29:23.956)
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (29:25.825)
You know, you can get excited and you can get carried away. And the next thing you know, it’s like, my gosh, this is taking up so much time and so much effort. And that leads to the subject of opportunity cost. So the amount of time and effort you’re spending on this, what are you not spending that time on that you know, otherwise you would be or could be in your studio?
Mandy (29:47.297)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (29:52.108)
Yes, exactly. And I mean, I’ve learned that the hard way, for sure, over the years. yeah, for sure. And but I have learned and and I have you know, I I like to know that I have like helped pass this information, this these lessons on to to newer business owners, that I that I work with. I’m thinking of a conversation I had last week.
John Kozicki (29:59.757)
So you fall in for that?
Mandy (30:21.856)
that if if I’m going to participate and you want me to perform, right? Which I do, there’s a fee for that, right? There is a fee. but I’m gonna bring an audience with me, you know? Like and that’s what this is about. That’s what this collaboration is about. I’m gonna, you know, we’re gonna I’m gonna bring my people and we’re gonna be at your festival and
John Kozicki (30:34.369)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (30:50.338)
But like when it comes to maybe providing an activity for the kids, sure, I’ll, you know, I would love to donate, you know, X amount on markers and last the last thing I did was foam foam visors for an outdoor event. Right? Kids decorated them and put stickers on them. Like that I’ll donate. I place the order, it arrives, you know, I spend some time there. We’ve got volunteers there.
John Kozicki (31:08.866)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (31:20.354)
Yes. But like you have to don’t say yes every time, right? When the what we just had sidewalk sales in town on Main Street too. and they’re calling around asking for for people to, you know, the kids. I’m speaking about me, like the the kids businesses, like we need somebody to sit in front of the bounce house.
John Kozicki (31:49.355)
Right.
Mandy (31:49.794)
Would you you know, could you put we’ll put your banner up? Could you kind of be there? Like well think that’s what I’m getting at. Yes. no, I
John Kozicki (31:54.955)
Yeah, the old the old free the old free exposure, right?
Yep. Musicians are w very familiar with the the the free exposure gig. Yeah.
Mandy (32:08.822)
Right? And you have to like gently educate people. Like I would like to participate, but I you know, in order f you know, I need compensation to be there. It’s it’s funny to me that like they’ll ask for
John Kozicki (32:23.606)
Right. Yeah, you’re not gonna sit in front of the bounce house for two hours and watch kids go in and out because that’s not really gonna promote your business. Yeah.
Mandy (32:33.418)
No, just because you got a logo up there. and but you know what? If they wanted a sponsor for it, right? And you’ve and that’s in your budget and that’s something that you want to do, okay, cool. Do that. You know, I I don’t I I don’t need to get yeah.
John Kozicki (32:50.796)
See, and I think that’s exactly where yeah, what what you’re talking about though now is is is like cross this line. It’s no longer a collaboration. Right? That’s not a collaboration. While it may be presented as a collaboration, hey, you can come do this thing with us. That like, yeah, that would be a quote unquote collaboration, but really they’re asking you to babysit the bounce house for two hours.
Mandy (32:59.264)
Yes, yes, right.
Mandy (33:15.906)
Yes. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (33:17.472)
That’s not a collaboration. That’s asking you to babysit the bounce house. Sponsorship is something different. It’s their event. You’re just giving them money for that bounce house. Yeah.
Mandy (33:21.473)
Yes, yeah.
Absolutely very different.
Mandy (33:30.164)
Mm-hmm. Yep. And that’s valuable too. But i yeah. Be selective in these collaborations. Yes.
John Kozicki (33:33.643)
Yes, but it’s different.
John Kozicki (33:39.895)
Right. Weigh the costs and the benefits. And that’s and that’s why I mean I thought it was important to mention like my scenario where like, okay, these costs they add up significantly. Right. Just like you’re saying it’s not worth your time to go sit in front of the bounce house. Yeah.
Mandy (33:42.05)
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (33:56.844)
No, no. Yep. As much as you love the community, love the kids, that’s that’s not that’s not what we do. Yeah.
John Kozicki (34:06.272)
Right. I missing anything? We talked about the benefits. I and the because we trailed into the costs and where it went, I I still think like there’s huge benefit in these collaborations in the community. But I’m just advocating when you’re approaching these, just know that there are costs associated with it and and be smart about it. again, you want that high benefit.
Low cost scenario.
Mandy (34:36.758)
Mm. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I had wanted to say, like, it’s not I don’t think I don’t expect payment, you know, for every collab, right? Like it’s not when we do these things, it’s not about a financial benefit. You know, solely. Like, but you have to make sure that I know, I know.
John Kozicki (34:50.924)
Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (34:59.488)
No one no one’s j no one’s judging no one’s judging you. I’m not judging you.
Mandy (35:04.746)
I know. I mean, I am much more careful. I I ask for you know, I I charge a fee for certain things, but I don’t know. It’s about balance. It’s about balance for me, right? And not just showing up for free every time. No way.
John Kozicki (35:22.602)
All right. So yes, we’re pro collaborating in the community. Be smart. Weigh the pros and cons. Weigh the the benefits with whatever actual real costs that you have, whether that’s monetary or your time. And the time is the the one that creeps in. I think that’s the one. Yeah. all right. So always. Always. Yeah.
Mandy (35:26.314)
Yes.
Mandy (35:40.726)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We always underestimate, I think. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
John Kozicki (35:50.26)
So we’ll wrap this up and we’ll see you next time.
Mandy (35:53.486)
Sounds good. Thanks, John.
